Front Shock Absorbers

[simon james]

Anyone who has tried to buy replacement front shock absorbers has probably wondered why they cost so much, compared to others.
Well, a quick comparison reveals that the open and compressed length of a Bilstein is 361mm and 248mm.
They’re also about £180 each.

Now, an empi one for a lowered link pin beetle has an open and compressed length of 9 3/4” and 14 5/8” which is just about the same as the Bilstein ones.
These are currently in offer at GSF for about £35 each.

Correct me if I am wrong but surely they will interchange?

[hot66]

do you know the spec of rebound & compression for each type?

[simon james]

Sorry James, no I don’t.
That information is not given.
Working on the assumption that both are rear engined and some of the 356 suspension components carry the VW logo, I would suspect very similar. Not to mention that a new one must surely feel better than a knackered old one???
Almost worth a punt for the sake of £70!

[Mike Smith]

I really do take your point Simon
They have to be better than knackered ones and it is a small gamble

A Couple of points
1) - Konis are, of course adjustable - are the V-Dub ones also adjustable - ?

2) - It rather depends how closely the VW` ones replicate the Koni Compression and Rebound Curve as to how they will feel

3) - Koni are a funny old firm to deal with and the Retailers discount is so small that it is hardly worth stocking them. However, PRS do have them on the website at £150

It could also be the old syndrome of 20 Million Beetles makes a better market than 78 Thousand 356`s

I would certainly like to know how you get on with them

[Kneeslider]

My car came with KYBs fitted, and they were rubbish. Way too skittish feeling at the front over crests leading the car to feel as though it wanted to wander around at speed. The front toe in was right, so it must have been the shocks, so they had to go.

Fitted Konis all round and an immediate improvement straight away, much more planted feeling from the front on the bumpy surfaces that pass for roads round here. Much as I hate spending money, and junking something that looks nearly new, it was money well spent.

[simon james]

My car came with KYBs fitted, and they were rubbish. Way too skittish feeling at the front over crests leading the car to feel as though it wanted to wander around at speed. The front toe in was right, so it must have been the shocks, so they had to go.

Fitted Konis all round and an immediate improvement straight away, much more planted feeling from the front on the bumpy surfaces that pass for roads round here. Much as I hate spending money, and junking something that looks nearly new, it was money well spent.

Jon, are KYB not super hard gas thingys?
My car currently runs an assortment of shockers as fitted by various previous owners.
Being supplied as a Super 90 by AFN, it originally had adjustable Konis.
One of these remains!
Experience has taught me that unless you are thundering round a smooth track then progressive suspension is so much better.
Surely the actual stiffness and rate is governed by the torsion bars?

[hot66]

not that simple .. scroll down to the damping section

http://www.rapid-racer.com/suspension-tuning.php

if youve got stock spring rates, you can still effect the ride quality by having shocks with high compression etc.

I know when you look at Bilstein shocks for early 911's , they give you the compression and rebound numbers for each spec shock .. eg :

club sport ...B46-0967 24-009676 Race spec or Club Sport rated, Rebound/Bump setting 204/187

https://type911shop.co.uk/epages/de867c ... ducts/4633

I personally am not experinced enough to know what exactly is best ...so I went off tuthills recomendation on the past for fast b road ... they advise a spec of shock to go with stock torsion bars . I know thats a 911 im talking about, but the same care should be given to a 356 shock choice

[wildtexas]

I wouldn't touch anything made by EMPI these days. They are not what they once were.

[simon james]

Thanks for all the replies. Some food for thought in there!

But to play Devils Advocate, how many of us are quite happily driving around in cars with Shock Absorbers of unknown origin/history??

[hot66]

Thanks for all the replies. Some food for thought in there!

But to play Devils Advocate, how many of us are quite happily driving around in cars with Shock Absorbers of unknown origin/history??

no one I know or drive with ( talking old Porsche owners )

Think of all the money you are saving whilst Betty's is shut .. that can now be spent on the 356

TBH, once youve got the spec of the VW shocks & of the Porsche shocks you can then decide whats best

[mycar]

I replaced my old Konis of unknown age with a new set of Koni Classics and the difference was remarkable. With the old shocks the front end bobbed up and down in a disconcerting way but the new Konis tightened everything up and cornering became enjoyable once again.

I've spent enough money on sh!t stuff over the years to recognise that whoever said 'buy cheap, buy twice' might have a point. I think it's worth spending the money to get the most out of the car.

Having said that, I think I've still got those old Konis.... if so you are welcome to them. Perhaps you can get them rebuilt or something ?

[simon james]

Thanks for all the replies. Some food for thought in there!

But to play Devils Advocate, how many of us are quite happily driving around in cars with Shock Absorbers of unknown origin/history??

no one I know or drive with ( talking old Porsche owners )

Think of all the money you are saving whilst Betty's is shut .. that can now be spent on the 356

TBH, once youve got the spec of the VW shocks & of the Porsche shocks you can then decide whats best

Hurrah for Betty’s of Northallerton !!!! I do miss their breakfasts so.

I replaced my old Konis of unknown age with a new set of Koni Classics and the difference was remarkable. With the old shocks the front end bobbed up and down in a disconcerting way but the new Konis tightened everything up and cornering became enjoyable once again.

I've spent enough money on sh!t stuff over the years to recognise that whoever said 'buy cheap, buy twice' might have a point. I think it's worth spending the money to get the most out of the car.

Having said that, I think I've still got those old Konis.... if so you are welcome to them. Perhaps you can get them rebuilt or something ?

Mike, you do indeed have a valid point. Your kind offer has been noted and I do have customers in Harrow Gate (Not far from Betty’s of Harrogate) so I may indeed call you at some point!

[Mike Smith]

A Good Road Set-Up :-

1) - Koni Shocks all round - Left at their softest setting until they have settled in (3 to 500 miles) - Then 1/2 to 1-turn harder

2) - 19mm Front Anti Roll Bar on Carrera Hardness Rubber - (NOT Plastic) - (PRS Products)

3) - Rear Torsion Bar Carrera Hardness Rubber - (NOT Plastic) - (PRS Product)

4) - Standard Front Toe-In (VERY IMPORTANT to set this using BOTH Tie Rods and with the STEERING BOX on EXACT Centre)

5) - Standard Camber Angle (Of Course with Good King and Links) - (also Check that both Front Links are adjusted to the same Angle, obviously before setting camber)

6) - Standard Rear Toe-In - (VERY IMPORTANT to get this Right - in Fact one of the Most Important) - Ensure that the 3 x Bolts holding the Drive Shaft Tubes to the Swing Plates are wrenched up has hard as yours and the Bolts will allow) - (the 4th Bolt is an alignment Bolt to assist mechanics to replace the Transmission back in the car in the same place everytime)

7) - Carrera Hardness Engine Mounts (the Banana ones) - (PRS Product)

- Good Tyres set to the Correct Pressures and Balanced

9) - You can drop the Rear a little but - Zero is OK - Depends on How Heavy the Driver is - Whether you carry a passenger regularly or any other heavy goods and whether it is a Left or RHD Car - (You might want to set up a LHD Car a little Higher on the Left - to compensate for sitting in the Gutter)

10) - Nose attitude needs to be slightly down in comparison to the rear (Obviously set the rear first).

NOTE
These are not in the order of approach, they are just as they came into my head

Other Comments
The Skirmants Rear bar is an additional option and works well on the rear - (It operates completely differently to the Porsche Compensating bar - there are 2 x versions)

Additionally, be aware that if your car was originally equipped with a Camber Compensator Bar, you also have softer Rear Torsion Bars

For Race cars we also align both Front and Rear Suspension off the Centre-Line of the car



Sorry about the PRS Plugs - But we were the First People to put our hands in our pockets and mess up our cash-flow getting these items Re- manufactured so its always good to recover some of the costs.

[Kneeslider]

Hey Simon! If you want my set of KYBs you are welcome to them. I didn't throw them away after all, and they are under my bench gathering dust. They are a full set of 4, and look almost new. I didn't like them, but everyone is not the same as me.

Mike, I have been giving thought to a Skirmants Camber Compensator. Is it something you guys could supply, or do I have to purchase from the US? After disappearing off the road backwards in a Beetle in the mid 90s, things then weren't helped by the swing axles doing their thing, and I'm always mindful of that while driving my 356. In contrast I used to drive my Beetle with the tail out as much of the time as I could.

[simon james]

Hey Simon! If you want my set of KYBs you are welcome to them. I didn't throw them away after all, and they are under my bench gathering dust. They are a full set of 4, and look almost new. I didn't like them, but everyone is not the same as me.

Mike, I have been giving thought to a Skirmants Camber Compensator. Is it something you guys could supply, or do I have to purchase from the US? After disappearing off the road backwards in a Beetle in the mid 90s, things then weren't helped by the swing axles doing their thing, and I'm always mindful of that while driving my 356. In contrast I used to drive my Beetle with the tail out as much of the time as I could.

Seems like we’ve all had a beetle back end come round, I also once understeered straight on into a field in the middle of winter! I progressed to a 1303 Karmann Cabriolet which always seemed easier to control a slide on corners!
I’ve only ever once slid the tail out on the 356, that was shortly after I bought the car and before the diff exploded, it was on twenty year old tyres and 4 1/2” rims.
My wife has an Audi A3 Sport and i’d say the 356 feels stiffer and better planted than that. I’m on 5 1/2” rims and 185/60 tyres.

Jon, I have sent you a text to the number I have for you!