Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

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por911t
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Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by por911t »

Where most normal people upgrade to newer and newer cars, now on my 7th 911 I seem to be working my way back to older and older cars ! ... I've reached the point where the 356 is now of great interest and curiosity. For the record many years ago I was a time served technician and we are actively in the motor trade as a business (albeit commercial vehicles est 1978) so I have a full understanding of all things mechanical.

My question is where does the 356A T1 fit with the model production range. I assume 'pre a' was the initial designation then A, leading to B, C and so on ..... (??)

Please excuse the very basic nature of the question - we all have to start somewhere :-)

Kind regards

Barry (Glasgow, UK)
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Re: Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by roy mawbey »

Barry,

You are correct, the first cars produced in the late 40's were not made in volume, they were aluminium bodied made in Austria and hand built. They only produced around 50 cars and it was only after Porsche decided to move back to the Stuttgart area did they produce steel bodied 356 model cars from 1950 -1954. The engine sizes from 1100 to 1500cc.
In 1955 the 356A appeared on the scene with some modifications to the previous model. The windscreen was now no longer a bent version different dashboard and the engine increased to 1600cc. ( Other capacities were available and the model range also included a Carrera version.)

In 1958 and 59 the 356A had a few changes the capacities started at 1600 and 1600s and Carrera cars were still available.

The 55-57 356A have the term T1 applied, the 58-59 356A cars have the term T2. ( type 2 )

The last of the 356A cars up to September 59 when the 356B arrived had of course many changes on the mechanical side with different gearboxes, steering boxes etc etc over the full nine years of production.

What I can say is the 356 and the 356A are similar in shape, the T1 and T2 designation I never knew about till I had owned my car for many years. The 356A is not that different in shape to the earliest
models.

Books can define much more info, maybe this gives you an idea. Best of luck with your car.

Roy
RHD 356A coupe super 75 106954
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Re: Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by left4dead »

I'm just back from the 356 International in Spain after having driven back a cracking 356 cab (a 'B').

After dinner one evening, Steve Winter walked me around the car park explaining the differences between the T1, T1 1/2 (one & a half) and T2 variations of the A - very informative it was, too! The T1 has the beehive rear lights - as apposed to the 'teardrops' - and would appear to be the most sort after.

I'd take any variant, thanks. :)

Oh, there are some serious 356 experts on this forum so all questions will be answered I'm sure (all more knowledgeable than me).
Steve

1 x '67S, 3 x 2.4S all RHD

A privilege & pleasure to have owned them all.
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Re: Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by Hendrik Moulds »

Here goes:

Gmund: 1948-1951 aluminium bodies originally made in Gmund in Austria, approx 65 made.

PreA: This is a generic term as they are really model "356" but if you say that most people would reply, "yes but which model". 1950-1955 with each year having different variations. The only thing I would add to Roy's comments is that they had 16" wheels which were narrower and makes for a more "interesting drive". Tyres only available as cross plys for these wheels. If you forget Carreras there were 5 engines: 1100, 1300, 1300S, 1500 and 1500S.

A: 1956 to 1959 T1 is the first 2 years and T2 is the second 2 years with the T1/2 transition period in between. T1 have the shine down licence plate light and beehive rear lights like PreAs but all run on 15" wheels (as do the Bs and Cs). T2 has the teardrop rear lights and a shine up licence plate light. As Roy says, 1600 engines in 2 states of tune (normal (60hp) and super (75hp), the 1300 was available for the T1 as well.

B: 1960-1963. T5 is 1960 and 61 and T6 is 1962 and 1963. (T3 and 4 were abandoned designs). Completely different body designs from each other as well as the earlier cars. Different style bumpers and overriders, nose, bonnet etc. The front end has extra vents under the bumper compared to the earlier cars. The T6 has two grills in the engine lid and a reshaped bonnet with a wider flatter front edge. 1600 engine again in 3 states of tune (normal (60hp), super (75hp) and super 90 (90hp).

C: 1964-1965, basically the B T6 body with disk brakes (flat hup caps like an early 911). Engines are still 1600 in 2 states of tune (C (75hp) and SC (95hp))

Hope this helps, but if there is anything specific you want to know please ask. :)
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Re: Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by Ashley James »

The general view seems to be that the earlier models are better looking and the later ones rather better to drive. They're very good in fact but not fast, fast enough to keep pace off the motorway and noisy and busy compared to moderns on it. Wonderful old cars though and with the feel of a Porsche.
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Re: Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by oldtimer »

Good answers form the ddk massive .

I will chip in to say that if you are mechanically minded , you can do your own maintenance with the support of the excellent workshop manual . No computer diagnostics needed !

Health warning . 356 body work is not straightforward , many of these cars were not properly repaired after accident damage or corrosion damage , they were not worth enough back in the day to do so . Most of the survivors are LHD having lived in dryer / warmer climates . I did try fixing my (long gone) '63 RHD car back in 1970 for corrosion damage - lesson learned.
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Re: Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by por911t »

Gents, I cant thank you enough so far for the plethora of 356 information - all extremely useful in learning about the model.

I hate to raise the age old question of values and I know it will have been kicked around endlessly on the forums - from project to good usable classic what price band are we in with these cars just now ?

Huge thanks again for your extremely kind input and knowledge.

Regards ,

Barry
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Re: Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by Kenyon »

Hi Barry - There's a real depth of knowledge here. And no question too stupid - I've asked a few of them.

Also worth reading / searching Porsche 356 Registry as there are a number of real detail people on there:

http://forum.porsche356registry.org/

I found my 356B will easily run with modern traffic. Sometimes I look for 5th gear but never really have trouble getting off slip roads into traffic, keeping up. Main problem I have had is not driving it enough.

All the best

Phil
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Re: Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by mycar »

James Schrager's book is an excellent read and useful reference for 356s.

It's expensive on Amazon UK at the moment but a better price on the US site.

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Re: Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by roy mawbey »

Barry,

Again not a stupid question to raise concerning the current prices you might have to pay. In the late 60's I bought my 356A super RHD coupe for £440- I still have the car and have seen the uplift in price take place over a period of 48 years. Slowly at first but then all of sudden with Porsche doing well in motor sport, the 911 and its various models proving of interest the earlier 356 cars cars started to interest people. Even in the mid 70's you could buy a running 356 ( I bought one ) for around £250- so it was no surprise to me that in the 80's and 90's they really started to rise.

Because so many over here rusted away, they became more of a rare sight on the roads, but still liked for competition. So then normal insurances had to changed to ' agreed value ' the cars started to be restored properly and those costs were high. When resto costs of say £35K were around, quite a few years ago now, the owners wanted tom see a return on the their investments and these cars looked good and so sold at prices I found hard to believe.

The models too affect price, the speedster and cabs, as well as very early 356 cars command fortunes today so if we keep the price idea to 356A cars and only to the coupe it might prove more factual to you.

In my opinion only, the 58-59 T2 356A coupe was the model with the latest developments. The T1 is very similar but I liked the idea of having the latest possible technology for 356A cars.

A RHD 356AT2 with super ( 75 bhp ) coupe will command over here more than a LHD drive normal engined car. RHD cars are rare these days.

Figures you see around gained from auction sites, etc etc, seem to say the following for 356 A coupe

1). A car needing much restoration all over but complete £30 - £40,000

2). A car in good running condition but certainly not perfect £ 60 - £75,000

3). A perfect example show type car £120 - £140,000

All the figures above are dependant on how the car was equipped with accessories who did the restoration, the history, and if all numbers match up. Many variables even down to original paint colour and interior colour being used.

It all in the eye of the beholder and how much cash they have in their pocket. But Barry, the days of a bargain at £20,000 are gone I reckon. These cars are not easy to fully restore bodywork wise. It can be done but you need clever guys doing it and it takes time if the car is really rusty.

Now, all you guys can shoot me down with those figures everyone has their ideas :wink:

Roy
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Re: Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by oldtimer »

I think you are about right with prices on the 356A Roy , with a couple of comments . Everyone seems to want an A , so supply and demand is in operation , for a reasonable car you need about £100k available . Floor price might be a neglected non running rustbucket complete with engine for £30k .

If you go to 356B /C, things look more reasonable and you can work with £50-70k for a reasonable car.
RHD still has a premium based on not so many about and convenience of use ( especially parking and overtaking !)

If I was buying I would look to the US , both private sales on the registry and trade sales .
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Re: Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by kvinyl »

I find this site very useful for a quick comparison between all the models as it has handy graphics for reference

http://www.mejor.com/356/356picar.htm

I sourced my 356s through the Samba.com (albeit a few years ago now) so don't forget to look on there from time to time. Mobile.de always have a selection but tend to be pricy.

I think 356 prices have softened a bit over the last 12-18 months so probably a good time to be looking. Having had an A, B and PreA I can say that all of them are more than capable of holding their own in modern traffic - the A and B drive similary but imho the A is a better looker. The PreA always feels a little more delicate compared to the other two but you can still give it abuse if you need to...

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Re: Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by left4dead »

A number of early 356s in the upcoming FoS auction:

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24120/
Steve

1 x '67S, 3 x 2.4S all RHD

A privilege & pleasure to have owned them all.
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Re: Not new to Porsche but new to 356 ....

Post by left4dead »

Good work, Mike. 8)
Steve

1 x '67S, 3 x 2.4S all RHD

A privilege & pleasure to have owned them all.
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