Pop pop pop dead

[bonerp]

Thats what my car did Sunday on the way to tipec! grrr

I appear to have no power when cranking - its dead Jim!

Quick question - should the alternator light come on when the ignition is on? like the oil light does - and then go out if all is ok once the car starts. My wiring seems to have been changed at some point since I did it cos the alternator is going to the red light and the oil light hasnt even been connected.

Looking closer none of the colours seem to match the wiring diagram anymore (reds go to earth, other colours start at one end one colour and finish the other end in another colour - three times now I've had to redo the darn wiring), the brake light circuit to check for failure at the master cylinder has been stripped out ffs took ages to do that (is that an MOT requirement??), relays don't appear to be attached to the correct circuits (headlight relay is running the heated screen now) and since being fitted the heated seats dont work. Time for the wiring to be redone me thinks..another weekend job.

I also think whatever happened yesterday has taken out the stereo as thats dead.

I'll get a new battery, sort the wiring out, check the charging once its running and see if the alternator is shot, or the regulator maybe if its over charging. I have no idea whether the starter is ok.

Any other pointers gratefully received - btw should the starter motor circuit be protected by a fuse from the battery?

cheers all! Sorry for the rant....

[Del]

Wish I had an answer.... What loom have you got? / who supplied it? From memory, didn't it have lots of White cables?

[bonerp]

The loom is pilgrim all the whites are coil or dashlights each with different tracers.
Got new battery other one boiled. Going to get new regulator as I think one I have is 1700 one - its the plastic one.. Think I need the metal one for 1600s - which will explain too much charge? I think. Will test wht the output is first.

[mdmax72]

Paul you quoted

"Quick question - should the alternator light come on when the ignition is on? like the oil light does - and then go out if all is ok once the car starts. My wiring seems to have been changed at some point since I did it cos the alternator is going to the red light and the oil light hasnt even been connected."

Thats right both lights come on with ignition on, then go out once started.

Sounds like your loom is totally messed up?? with everybody adding and swaping wires. would it not be worth putting in a new loom to be on the safe side for what they cost. Its either a petrol problem or electrical problems that send these cars up in smoke... do you carry anything to put a fire out??

Anyway think you had a lucky escape really by what you say is toasted?? Hope you sort it out.

[bonerp]

yes fire extinguisher in the car Rich lol!

I'm fitting a pair of remote battery jumpers so should I get stuck ever again - what with the battery tucked out of reach it cannot be jumped - so with a pair of these I'll be able to jump it if necessary. For such a small outlay its worth it imho.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REMOTE-BATTER ... 5d2f8f9d74

I'm also going to chop out all the crap under the dash and redo it, using colours resembling the wiring diagram. If i sell it, no-one will currently be able to work out whats going on!

That reminds me I need to get a copy of the wiring diagram!

[threefiftysix]

Paul,
Despite my initial moans the loom has so far proved bullet proof. Just a quick one - usually the alternator has an integral regulator just checking you are not running the dynamo regulator as well?
How are the fuses? All in tact?
You won't get a fuse big enough to do the starter motor circuit - I fitted battery cut off switch in the main cable just incase anything did go wrong with starter circuit I could cut the power.

Does sound like a wiring / alternator melt down. I would get a new battery on and test all circuits without trying to fire it up. If all is well you could disconnect alternator and fire it off the battery to check all is well.

[bonerp]

Paul,
Despite my initial moans the loom has so far proved bullet proof. Just a quick one - usually the alternator has an integral regulator just checking you are not running the dynamo regulator as well?
How are the fuses? All in tact?
You won't get a fuse big enough to do the starter motor circuit - I fitted battery cut off switch in the main cable just incase anything did go wrong with starter circuit I could cut the power.

Does sound like a wiring / alternator melt down. I would get a new battery on and test all circuits without trying to fire it up. If all is well you could disconnect alternator and fire it off the battery to check all is well.

No my alternator has the external reg.
Fuses fine.
I'll add the new battery and check out the circuits, then check it starts and what charge I'm getting both at idle and upon revving. Found a good guide on VZi so that will help diagnose a problem with reg or alternator. Battery lasted 500 miles so a quick 10 min test should be ok....
On the alternator warning lamp - does that provide a positive to a buld thats earthed, or does the bulb need a 12v source and the alternator earths if theres a fault and the light comes on?

[threefiftysix]

Paul,
Sounds to me like the alternator was toast but you didn't know due to the light not being connected. You will be surprised how far you can get on a battery with a shagged alternator if you don't have lots of modern current sapping circuits. Here is the diagram, takes a feed off the regulator on mine and then the other side of lamp is earthed. EDIT - seems actually from re-reading the diagram that it has fused power to the bulb and the feed from the alternator must earth it?



Finally found the enthusiasm to get mine out again after almost 8 months under cover following a massive over spend and general lack of enthusiasm for thing after i finished it. We all have teething troubles, it's not just you.

[bonerp]

http://www.vw-resource.com/alternator_w ... l#external

this is my alternator and set up (alternator with external reg) - D+ is to the bulb which is then fed by a 12v switched supply according to the Pilgrim diagram.

Might send a wire directly from D+ to bulb just to ensure its not broken somewhere.

cheers
P

[threefiftysix]

Paul,
Interesting - did you scroll down and read the bit about the alt light? They state if the wire is not connected to the dash light the alt will not charge the battery...?! Maybe you have just run the battery flat as it has not been charging? Whatever it turns out to be it should be an easy fix, providing you don't have melted wires anywhere.

[bonerp]

think I've just discovered the problem....from Speedy Jims site:

"So -- If the Alternator is charging, the (D+) terminal has 12 volts on it; the blue wire from (D+) carries 14 volts to the "Alt" light in the instrument cluster. When the engine is running, there is 12 volts on the *other* side of the lamp from ignition terminal #15, so potential difference is only 2 volts and the bulb doesn't light. But, if the alternator dies or the drive belt breaks, there is no voltage on (D+) (looks like ground) and current flows from #15 thru the lamp to (D+), and the "Alt" lamp comes on to warn the driver of a problem.

An LED light won't work for this purpose. LED's are diodes and will not allow current to flow in the opposite direction. With the LED, it would see the 12 volts, but the reverse flow 2 volts would be stopped by the diode nature of the LED, so that wouldn't work.

The 12-volt 2-watt indicator bulbs are available at any VW parts store."

I am using an LED - what a prick I am! The LED isnt allow current to flow so must've done 500miles on the battery lol

[stevesprite]

Heres a link to something that happened to me a good few years ago. Always check your wiring

http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6296

[mdmax72]

At least we all now know how far we can get on the battery if the our alternator dies.

[mdmax72]

Just read your link Steve and a Good job that lorry driver was passing

Think l will go and buy one after reading these posts.

[bonerp]

fitted some new dash lights corrected some wiring tonight (there were a few wires where the insulation had been cut for testing and not re-insulated!), new battery in and all seems to work. Alt light went out but will check output to ensure reg and alt are ok.

Stereo seems to have blown thought therefore I guess the popping was the little amp blowing! Took it out and something is rattling around in there. I'd recommend adding a light fuse to protect it...rich!

Still need trim chop out excess wiring and put the rear seats back in and the roof back on. Will wait until I have the remote starter posts though, coming from the states.

Luckily looks like starter is ok, alt seems to work. Fixed a few issues too so although having spent couple of quid and bit of agro, I've corrected a few dangerous points on the car! Wiring hasnt melted either

One thing - I wanted to fit a heated windscreen dash light so did this before the switch. Trouble is the relay wont latch. If I cut out the light it works fine! Could the 2w bulb be too much and isnt supplying enough electricity to the relay?