cdi failure - what happens?
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cdi failure - what happens?
If you are of an inquiring mind, and being retired can fill your mind with idle thoughts, you might have wondered how you might know when your cdi box gives up after its 40 years or so of sparking for a living .... well yesterday I found out.
2 and a half hours by the side of the A29 nervously watching idiots try to kill themselves (and me and my good lady) despite the fact we were on a half mile stretch of old Roman road and hence straight with great views of what's to come. Seems some folk only look a few yards ahead. Lots of good folk stopped to see if they could help - even a lady police officer, but I called a recovery truck through my insurance to take us home (we had been out for 80 odd miles, and came to a halt only 5m from home). And before any of my so-called mates pipe up - yes I know the engine is at the back - but it seems to transmit to the wider public you are broken down if you raise the bonnet.
Apart from a very short bit of spluttering just after I refilled the tank - (both my 911's do this - no idea why) - the car ran strongly and smoothly. That is until I 'stretched her legs' a little on said straight sections of the A29 near Ockley. Then it began with an odd misfire, quickly increasing to missing more and more, and then a progressive loss of power as more cylinders were dropping out, until a final giving up altogether. I suspected the points/coil/box right from the start, but was nagged by the thought of the petrol refill 20 miles earlier. What was confusing was that when I tested the output from the coil by the roadside I did get the occasional spark.
Indeed when I got home and pretty much eliminated fuel supply as a cause, I still got the odd spark, and the car would almost run - behaving like the timing was off or the fuel supply was poor, with much spluttering and back-firing.
Anyway I checked the points (no change), changed the coil for the one off the Doctors car (no change), and then for a spare cdi box that I knew was good ..... and off we went. Still wasn't running perfectly, but that turned out to be a poorly set points gap in my diagnostic faffing. Normal service resumed.
Thought I'd record this for the benefit of others in the future. Only one data point I know.
I normally carry spare points/coil/box, but the law of Sod had intervened and I had taken them out a few days earlier so I could carry some stuff under the bonnet. My additional learning is to stuff some tie-wraps in the tool bag as you would need something to hang the replacement cdi box up with - changing it over permanently requires the board be removed and that is a faff, and not a roadside job. You need to get the car to a safe spot quickly. We were lucky in one sense that the weather was good and where it died had reasonably good visibility.
Bigger learning is I'm going for one of Jonny Hart's new fangled boxes when they're available. My faith in 40 year old electronics is evaporating .....
Mick
2 and a half hours by the side of the A29 nervously watching idiots try to kill themselves (and me and my good lady) despite the fact we were on a half mile stretch of old Roman road and hence straight with great views of what's to come. Seems some folk only look a few yards ahead. Lots of good folk stopped to see if they could help - even a lady police officer, but I called a recovery truck through my insurance to take us home (we had been out for 80 odd miles, and came to a halt only 5m from home). And before any of my so-called mates pipe up - yes I know the engine is at the back - but it seems to transmit to the wider public you are broken down if you raise the bonnet.
Apart from a very short bit of spluttering just after I refilled the tank - (both my 911's do this - no idea why) - the car ran strongly and smoothly. That is until I 'stretched her legs' a little on said straight sections of the A29 near Ockley. Then it began with an odd misfire, quickly increasing to missing more and more, and then a progressive loss of power as more cylinders were dropping out, until a final giving up altogether. I suspected the points/coil/box right from the start, but was nagged by the thought of the petrol refill 20 miles earlier. What was confusing was that when I tested the output from the coil by the roadside I did get the occasional spark.
Indeed when I got home and pretty much eliminated fuel supply as a cause, I still got the odd spark, and the car would almost run - behaving like the timing was off or the fuel supply was poor, with much spluttering and back-firing.
Anyway I checked the points (no change), changed the coil for the one off the Doctors car (no change), and then for a spare cdi box that I knew was good ..... and off we went. Still wasn't running perfectly, but that turned out to be a poorly set points gap in my diagnostic faffing. Normal service resumed.
Thought I'd record this for the benefit of others in the future. Only one data point I know.
I normally carry spare points/coil/box, but the law of Sod had intervened and I had taken them out a few days earlier so I could carry some stuff under the bonnet. My additional learning is to stuff some tie-wraps in the tool bag as you would need something to hang the replacement cdi box up with - changing it over permanently requires the board be removed and that is a faff, and not a roadside job. You need to get the car to a safe spot quickly. We were lucky in one sense that the weather was good and where it died had reasonably good visibility.
Bigger learning is I'm going for one of Jonny Hart's new fangled boxes when they're available. My faith in 40 year old electronics is evaporating .....
Mick
'Creativity is the product of time wasted' Albert Einstein
1972 RHD 2.4E (ex Bob Watson racer - now in original Tangerine)
1966 LHD swb (Doctors car - now with Mrs. Ferrari in Madrid)
1966 TR4A (now sold and replaced by 1990 944 turbo)
1966 S2a Landrover
1972 RHD 2.4E (ex Bob Watson racer - now in original Tangerine)
1966 LHD swb (Doctors car - now with Mrs. Ferrari in Madrid)
1966 TR4A (now sold and replaced by 1990 944 turbo)
1966 S2a Landrover
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Re: cdi failure - what happens?
Describes my experience a few years ago when mine went
1972 911T | 1994 993 Carrera | 1999 986 Boxster | 1990 T25 Camper
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Re: cdi failure - what happens?
I can fix CDI boxes. Please let me know if you'd like me to take a look. I agree that the Jonny Hart ones look really interesting, but in the mean time.....
Tim Bennett
RHD Targa 2.2T EFI, Triumph ITB's, EDIS and Megasquirt.
"Old enough to know what's right and young enough not to choose it"
#1153
RHD Targa 2.2T EFI, Triumph ITB's, EDIS and Megasquirt.
"Old enough to know what's right and young enough not to choose it"
#1153
Re: cdi failure - what happens?
Thanks Tim - I will send you a pm.
I have this one and another that I've never tested, but assume is u/s because something is loose inside and is rattling about.
Mick
I have this one and another that I've never tested, but assume is u/s because something is loose inside and is rattling about.
Mick
'Creativity is the product of time wasted' Albert Einstein
1972 RHD 2.4E (ex Bob Watson racer - now in original Tangerine)
1966 LHD swb (Doctors car - now with Mrs. Ferrari in Madrid)
1966 TR4A (now sold and replaced by 1990 944 turbo)
1966 S2a Landrover
1972 RHD 2.4E (ex Bob Watson racer - now in original Tangerine)
1966 LHD swb (Doctors car - now with Mrs. Ferrari in Madrid)
1966 TR4A (now sold and replaced by 1990 944 turbo)
1966 S2a Landrover
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Re: cdi failure - what happens?
Thanks for the running report. Always good to know what it actually feels like so diagnosis is honed.
I like the way Mrs T is suitable impressed looking when you have just said "don't worry love, I think I know what's wrong".
Regards
Mike
I like the way Mrs T is suitable impressed looking when you have just said "don't worry love, I think I know what's wrong".
Regards
Mike
_____________________________
73 RS (Sold)
67 S
Mint T (Sold)
996 Turbo (Sold)
73 2.4E (home after 25 years) and Sold again
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73 RS (Sold)
67 S
Mint T (Sold)
996 Turbo (Sold)
73 2.4E (home after 25 years) and Sold again
73T targa (signal yellow project)
1953 Vauxhall Velox
914/6
1963 356B
https://www.mybespokeroom.com/
Re: cdi failure - what happens?
She was on her best behaviour Mike.... although the edges were showing as the time of her evening tennis match approached and the recovery driver called to say he'd gone in the wrong direction and would be another half hour. All was OK in the end, so I escaped retribution.
I think she sensed it was not a time for levity or smart-arsed commentary ..... she's clever like that.....
I think she sensed it was not a time for levity or smart-arsed commentary ..... she's clever like that.....
'Creativity is the product of time wasted' Albert Einstein
1972 RHD 2.4E (ex Bob Watson racer - now in original Tangerine)
1966 LHD swb (Doctors car - now with Mrs. Ferrari in Madrid)
1966 TR4A (now sold and replaced by 1990 944 turbo)
1966 S2a Landrover
1972 RHD 2.4E (ex Bob Watson racer - now in original Tangerine)
1966 LHD swb (Doctors car - now with Mrs. Ferrari in Madrid)
1966 TR4A (now sold and replaced by 1990 944 turbo)
1966 S2a Landrover
Re: cdi failure - what happens?
SilverWT (Mark) over on IB has been one of Jonny's test mules so might be worth asking him if either his original unit or the unit he has been running for Jonny is available.
Kevin
Kevin
Re: cdi failure - what happens?
Hi all
As a stopgap I wired up a customer's car with a condenser so his car would run whilst his box was being fixed , it worked fine and got him out of trouble .
As a stopgap I wired up a customer's car with a condenser so his car would run whilst his box was being fixed , it worked fine and got him out of trouble .
- Jonny Hart
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Re: cdi failure - what happens?
I have an assortment of original non-working boxes and there a numerous failure modes. Some whine, some don't, some spark intermittently, some spark until they get to a certain RPM, some spark but not "on time". Oh, and one set fire to itself.
I won't ever dis the original Bosch engineers - they can be proud of a design that can still work 40 years later but there comes a point where components are well beyond their sell by date. Factor in all those heat and power cycles, the vibration and electrically noisy environment and it is a small marvel that these work at all at their age.
From what I read Tim B does a sterling job repairing these and I'm sure that he has a go to list of common failures. In my view, though, even a repaired unit is just waiting for the next weakest component to break, hence we took a fresh approach of a complete redesign.
Our first batch is in production and will be available in a couple of weeks.
I won't ever dis the original Bosch engineers - they can be proud of a design that can still work 40 years later but there comes a point where components are well beyond their sell by date. Factor in all those heat and power cycles, the vibration and electrically noisy environment and it is a small marvel that these work at all at their age.
From what I read Tim B does a sterling job repairing these and I'm sure that he has a go to list of common failures. In my view, though, even a repaired unit is just waiting for the next weakest component to break, hence we took a fresh approach of a complete redesign.
Our first batch is in production and will be available in a couple of weeks.
Re: cdi failure - what happens?
Jonny reminds me - my box continued to 'whine' throughout, so although the absence might well indicate a u/s box, presence does not mean it is working ok!
I'll watch out for availability of the new boxes.
I also intend to get Tim to look at 2 cdi boxes and repair them if sensible as I intend to keep the Doctors car on cdi.
Mick
I'll watch out for availability of the new boxes.
I also intend to get Tim to look at 2 cdi boxes and repair them if sensible as I intend to keep the Doctors car on cdi.
Mick
'Creativity is the product of time wasted' Albert Einstein
1972 RHD 2.4E (ex Bob Watson racer - now in original Tangerine)
1966 LHD swb (Doctors car - now with Mrs. Ferrari in Madrid)
1966 TR4A (now sold and replaced by 1990 944 turbo)
1966 S2a Landrover
1972 RHD 2.4E (ex Bob Watson racer - now in original Tangerine)
1966 LHD swb (Doctors car - now with Mrs. Ferrari in Madrid)
1966 TR4A (now sold and replaced by 1990 944 turbo)
1966 S2a Landrover
Re: cdi failure - what happens?
And this was using the original black coil? I thought this would either not work or f**k the coil?Dingbat wrote:Hi all
As a stopgap I wired up a customer's car with a condenser so his car would run whilst his box was being fixed , it worked fine and got him out of trouble .
I thought an original Kettering set up required a blue coil with much higher secondary resistance.
Good to know if it will work and not knack the coil.....
'Creativity is the product of time wasted' Albert Einstein
1972 RHD 2.4E (ex Bob Watson racer - now in original Tangerine)
1966 LHD swb (Doctors car - now with Mrs. Ferrari in Madrid)
1966 TR4A (now sold and replaced by 1990 944 turbo)
1966 S2a Landrover
1972 RHD 2.4E (ex Bob Watson racer - now in original Tangerine)
1966 LHD swb (Doctors car - now with Mrs. Ferrari in Madrid)
1966 TR4A (now sold and replaced by 1990 944 turbo)
1966 S2a Landrover
Re: cdi failure - what happens?
I hope that wasn't the box you bought from me! Mind you I think the warranty has expired!
Re: cdi failure - what happens?
Hi
On reflection I did stick a bosch blue coil on it as I was not sure on ruining it on the ceiling one, bibs box had packed in due to a dry joint so it was a cheap fix .
On reflection I did stick a bosch blue coil on it as I was not sure on ruining it on the ceiling one, bibs box had packed in due to a dry joint so it was a cheap fix .
Re: cdi failure - what happens?
No Graham, it wasn't........ yours was my spare, so it's on there now........gridgway wrote:I hope that wasn't the box you bought from me! Mind you I think the warranty has expired!
Be in touch if it fails to live up to expectation.
'Creativity is the product of time wasted' Albert Einstein
1972 RHD 2.4E (ex Bob Watson racer - now in original Tangerine)
1966 LHD swb (Doctors car - now with Mrs. Ferrari in Madrid)
1966 TR4A (now sold and replaced by 1990 944 turbo)
1966 S2a Landrover
1972 RHD 2.4E (ex Bob Watson racer - now in original Tangerine)
1966 LHD swb (Doctors car - now with Mrs. Ferrari in Madrid)
1966 TR4A (now sold and replaced by 1990 944 turbo)
1966 S2a Landrover
Re: cdi failure - what happens?
well at least it's getting some use! I bought it from Nick Moss as a spare from memory too!