i know i have posted this in techincal but i really need help
my main wiring loom that comes through the bulkhead (left hand side)....had rubbed against the metal work and split the outer insulation....this in turn....chaffed the inner insulation cable....and yep.....caused the big red wire (from the alt to the batt i think) to melt....spark...and not behave itself....not good as its right next to the carb.....there is a black wire and a yellow wire.....the yellow seems to be fine ...ie...the insulation is not melted...the black had melted..about 1 inch....and so had the red...in two spots......
on stripping back the wire more i found it had melted right up to the alt, not sure how much into the car it has gone
i re-insultated the red & black....sorted out the grommet...job done......except....the alt light on the dash stays on...????....and has flattend the batt...i think thats the cause......so help...please...???
anyone got any ideas...??? do i have to replace the red wire from the batt to alt...??
last night, i jumped the car...ran it till it got hot...and the batt was charging @about 11.5 volts.......put the lights on to check if they were dim.....and a few secound later the car died.....not even hitting the loud pedal did anything....ran a wire from the alt to the batt outside the car....and still the same.......checked the batt and it about 5v, which dropped rather quickly... to nothing.......HELP....i do have a multi-meter and a 912e wireing diagram......so any suggestions would be great
does the loom go through the cabin..as it dont seem to run along a sill..?? if so what do i have to take out to get to it...
76 912e, car is running carbs, no reactors, aircon (but not connected)
batt drain/fried electrics
Moderators: hot66, impmad2000, Nige
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King_Jut
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impmad2000
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I was just looking at this. I've not got a 912 wiring diagram, am using my 69 911 wiring diagram. Should give me clues.
Was the engine running when the wire fried itself ? This mayt have killed the alternator/Voltage regulator.
11.5 V when running isn't actually charging the battery. You need 14.5 V (Ish) at the battery.
On the 911 wiring diag, the red wire is fed via a fuse. Have you checked all the fuses ?
If the wire fried in the open air, then it has probably fried further back towards the source (I.e battery ) It is safest to replace the wire complete. Sorry, I cannot help you with the wire routing.
I had a problem on another car where a dead Alternator regulator and diode pack were responsible for flattening the battery overnight. I proved this by disconnecting the alternator from the car and testing to see if the battery then discharged itself (It didn't) Replaced regulator/ diode pack ( These were one and the same unit on the car in question) and problem was sorted.
Good luck
Tim
Was the engine running when the wire fried itself ? This mayt have killed the alternator/Voltage regulator.
11.5 V when running isn't actually charging the battery. You need 14.5 V (Ish) at the battery.
On the 911 wiring diag, the red wire is fed via a fuse. Have you checked all the fuses ?
If the wire fried in the open air, then it has probably fried further back towards the source (I.e battery ) It is safest to replace the wire complete. Sorry, I cannot help you with the wire routing.
I had a problem on another car where a dead Alternator regulator and diode pack were responsible for flattening the battery overnight. I proved this by disconnecting the alternator from the car and testing to see if the battery then discharged itself (It didn't) Replaced regulator/ diode pack ( These were one and the same unit on the car in question) and problem was sorted.
Good luck
Tim
Tim Bennett
RHD Targa 2.2T EFI, Triumph ITB's, EDIS and Megasquirt.
"Old enough to know what's right and young enough not to choose it"
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Nige
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As Tim says really Justin
I'm not big on electrics but swapping the regulator first is a quick job, I picked up a new one from my local car spare, its a standard Bosch jobby (about £15), take you old one with you to match against. Its on that electric cage thingy to the left of the engine/rear wing area.
Double check everything before you think you need to removing the alternator for any reason, its a pig of a job.
Also make sure you've got a good earth afterwards, I had an overcharging problem (about 18v at the battery!, took me ages to realise what the smell was and why I was feeling sleepy at the wheel, boiling battery) After removing the alternator 4 times to have it checked then rebuilt and then a couple more times for a laugh. I had a sparky come around and after about 5 minutes he traced the fault to the regulator mounting that wasn't earthing.
Try the guys on Pelican for a wiring diagram, its been asked on there a few times.
I'm not big on electrics but swapping the regulator first is a quick job, I picked up a new one from my local car spare, its a standard Bosch jobby (about £15), take you old one with you to match against. Its on that electric cage thingy to the left of the engine/rear wing area.
Double check everything before you think you need to removing the alternator for any reason, its a pig of a job.
Also make sure you've got a good earth afterwards, I had an overcharging problem (about 18v at the battery!, took me ages to realise what the smell was and why I was feeling sleepy at the wheel, boiling battery) After removing the alternator 4 times to have it checked then rebuilt and then a couple more times for a laugh. I had a sparky come around and after about 5 minutes he traced the fault to the regulator mounting that wasn't earthing.
Try the guys on Pelican for a wiring diagram, its been asked on there a few times.
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King_Jut
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yeh car was running at time.....cringe...!!!!!! were is the fuse for the alt to batt wire...i have checked the ones on the fuse box and they are all ok.......the wire at the batt end is ok....but i cant get continuity on any wire, I put a multi-meter between the batt end and alt and there was nothing...unless i touch the the positive on the batt....then it made a circut......
really confused now.....lol
really confused now.....lol
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impmad2000
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Right, just re-checked the fuse thing (On my 911 wiring diagram, so yours may well be different) - That was a mistake on my part, missed traced a wire.. There should NOT be a fuse'cos if there was, the alternator would probably blow up if it ever failed (Not a good thing!) - Sorry about that - Red herring !
I have a Big Black wire straight from battery to Alt, and a red wire from front fuse box to the ignition circuits. (Looks like this one comes live when the ignition is on, cos it goes to the CDi box and the fuel pump !) The one most likely to be damaged is the big black one. Main charge to the battery. You should replace this if there are signs of damage. Dig around, see how much of this wire you can see and check, under carpets, behind panels etc.
The most likely cause of you current problem is the voltage regulator or diode pack in the alternator. The regulator can be checked by replacement, the diode pack may well be built into the alternator, and may need to be removed and tested by a specialist.
I have a Big Black wire straight from battery to Alt, and a red wire from front fuse box to the ignition circuits. (Looks like this one comes live when the ignition is on, cos it goes to the CDi box and the fuel pump !) The one most likely to be damaged is the big black one. Main charge to the battery. You should replace this if there are signs of damage. Dig around, see how much of this wire you can see and check, under carpets, behind panels etc.
The most likely cause of you current problem is the voltage regulator or diode pack in the alternator. The regulator can be checked by replacement, the diode pack may well be built into the alternator, and may need to be removed and tested by a specialist.
Tim Bennett
RHD Targa 2.2T EFI, Triumph ITB's, EDIS and Megasquirt.
"Old enough to know what's right and young enough not to choose it"
#1153
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King_Jut
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thanks guys for your help......tonight im attacking it with a multi-meter and a screw driver.......
im going to take out the interior, and trace the melted wire back as far as it is damaged.....does anyone know what side it runs...??? and what panels/ order to take them out...???
replace wire... replace battery.....jump car....check charge......all good pack up and have a bath......not good...!!!! scatch head....cry!!!
replace regulator...euro car parts...????? halfords...???..i have a friend who said i could have a type25 alt....if i need one....is this the same nige...?????dunno....maybe mark knows...if he reads this....
fingers crossed.....
im going to take out the interior, and trace the melted wire back as far as it is damaged.....does anyone know what side it runs...??? and what panels/ order to take them out...???
replace wire... replace battery.....jump car....check charge......all good pack up and have a bath......not good...!!!! scatch head....cry!!!
replace regulator...euro car parts...????? halfords...???..i have a friend who said i could have a type25 alt....if i need one....is this the same nige...?????dunno....maybe mark knows...if he reads this....
fingers crossed.....
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Nige
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seem to remember a T25 has a different output alternator so the regulator maybe different, if you note the Bosch part number from current reg any decent car shop should be able to cross reference it to another Bosch or equivilant make.
not sure what side it runs, think it might be passenger side and it might actually run through the heater channel box section, hopefully I'm wrong on that one!
not sure what side it runs, think it might be passenger side and it might actually run through the heater channel box section, hopefully I'm wrong on that one!
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Nige
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King_Jut
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hey guys.....jacked up th motor last night.....big fat red cable (the one that look like freddies face) goes to the stater....after that no melted wire......relpaced that....and made sure that it wont rub against anything again....put a mult-meter on the alt...and it wasputting out 12.4-9v.....so thats too low....
.sent the missis off today to get a new batt.....mine was struggleing a bit...(good excuse)...motor factor to get a regulator...its a BOSCH part.....and to pick up the alt.......
SO nige.......if you give me a quick write up on how to take my alt out.....(like you said you've done it abot 4 times) just the order of bits to take off.....what to watch out for....stuff like that...... i will buy you more than a couple of pints at GLEE......
not long now......eh..!!!!!! cant wait to drive our 7.5 tunner up to the nec...!!!!! white van man....ohhhh the attitude..!!!!
.sent the missis off today to get a new batt.....mine was struggleing a bit...(good excuse)...motor factor to get a regulator...its a BOSCH part.....and to pick up the alt.......
SO nige.......if you give me a quick write up on how to take my alt out.....(like you said you've done it abot 4 times) just the order of bits to take off.....what to watch out for....stuff like that...... i will buy you more than a couple of pints at GLEE......
not long now......eh..!!!!!! cant wait to drive our 7.5 tunner up to the nec...!!!!! white van man....ohhhh the attitude..!!!!
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Nige
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If you're going to replace the alternator I think you're only option is to have it rebuilt as I have a funny feeling its 912e specific, though you might find a 914 part to be the same. Mine cost £90 for a full refurb by a local autoelectrician.
OK, removal
Usual stuff, disconnect the battery, axle stand the back of the car up, higher the better and remove the back wheels.
Assuming yours is pretty much the same in the exhaust departement as mine you're going to have to remove the passenger side heat exchanger, you might get away with leaving the rest of the exhaust on. My problem was just getting to bolts on the flanges, usual stuff, zero access and rounded rusty nuts, took me a whole day to do that with hacksaw blades and an angle grinder!! Don't forget to remove the flexi hoses too, don't think you've got these fitted though as you don't have heating do you?
Now you've got the heat exchanger removed you can begin to remove the alternator. So back inside the engine compartment, remove the belt, pull the plastic cover over the hex nut adjuster, I think there is a couple of 10mm bolts that also hold a bit of tinware to it that need removing. You need to remove the rear piece of tinware, well just enough to give you more access. Then back underneath the car, remove all wiring from the alt' with a long crosshead screw driver you then need to loosen a clip around a rubber duct that directs cool air onto the alt, you may need a torch to see it. Then finally undo the nut that holds the main bolt that secures the alt, it goes all the way through the alt mountings and comes out in the engine compartment (its the domed one) it may need a few taps with a hammer to get it started. Then jiggle the alt' off the rubber ducting and twist and turn it scraping your knuckles along the way, without dropping it on your head.
Doesn't sound too bad now, main problem was just removing and replacing the heat exchanger, mine was also running thermal reactors at the time which also limits access. Don't think yours has these, so that will help.
Keep hold of your exhaust flange gaskets as I think they're 912e only, I smeared a good quality exhaust paste on re assembly which helped seal things.
May as well fit a new belt, my alt has always had very little adjustment, so fitting a new belt is abit like stretching a new tyre onto a bike rim.
You could also do you're valve clearances while its up in the air.
GLEE, what JOY! nearly there, just got to finalise artwork for our new brochure, finish the stand graphics, hire a van, etc, etc. Its a pain as much it is fun, if you know what I mean
OK, removal
Usual stuff, disconnect the battery, axle stand the back of the car up, higher the better and remove the back wheels.
Assuming yours is pretty much the same in the exhaust departement as mine you're going to have to remove the passenger side heat exchanger, you might get away with leaving the rest of the exhaust on. My problem was just getting to bolts on the flanges, usual stuff, zero access and rounded rusty nuts, took me a whole day to do that with hacksaw blades and an angle grinder!! Don't forget to remove the flexi hoses too, don't think you've got these fitted though as you don't have heating do you?
Now you've got the heat exchanger removed you can begin to remove the alternator. So back inside the engine compartment, remove the belt, pull the plastic cover over the hex nut adjuster, I think there is a couple of 10mm bolts that also hold a bit of tinware to it that need removing. You need to remove the rear piece of tinware, well just enough to give you more access. Then back underneath the car, remove all wiring from the alt' with a long crosshead screw driver you then need to loosen a clip around a rubber duct that directs cool air onto the alt, you may need a torch to see it. Then finally undo the nut that holds the main bolt that secures the alt, it goes all the way through the alt mountings and comes out in the engine compartment (its the domed one) it may need a few taps with a hammer to get it started. Then jiggle the alt' off the rubber ducting and twist and turn it scraping your knuckles along the way, without dropping it on your head.
Doesn't sound too bad now, main problem was just removing and replacing the heat exchanger, mine was also running thermal reactors at the time which also limits access. Don't think yours has these, so that will help.
Keep hold of your exhaust flange gaskets as I think they're 912e only, I smeared a good quality exhaust paste on re assembly which helped seal things.
May as well fit a new belt, my alt has always had very little adjustment, so fitting a new belt is abit like stretching a new tyre onto a bike rim.
You could also do you're valve clearances while its up in the air.
GLEE, what JOY! nearly there, just got to finalise artwork for our new brochure, finish the stand graphics, hire a van, etc, etc. Its a pain as much it is fun, if you know what I mean
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King_Jut
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thanks nige......i looked at it...and thought it would come out the top......take off the cooling tubing....tin wear.....and pull the sucker out.....
have printed off you notes...and will geet my dirty fingers all over them tonight.....yes...!!!!!
regulator is comeing from LSUK...batt from halfords....mate is the manager so i get it trade....
and fingers crossed i can get the alt to fit.....otherswise..it will have to be rebuilt......
we have 5 stands to build an glee........bloody great....!!!!!!
you staing up for the show nige...???
have printed off you notes...and will geet my dirty fingers all over them tonight.....yes...!!!!!
regulator is comeing from LSUK...batt from halfords....mate is the manager so i get it trade....
and fingers crossed i can get the alt to fit.....otherswise..it will have to be rebuilt......
we have 5 stands to build an glee........bloody great....!!!!!!
you staing up for the show nige...???
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Nige
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I think you'd have to remove it before you could removing the big ali fan housing thing. I posted about it on Pelican and all the guys said take it out from underneath, having had my engine out and in pieces I can could see how bringing it out of the top though not impossible is a much bigger job.
I'll be there for most of the setup for our stand, and maybe walk the show on the last day and then be there for breakdown. We travel the NEC is just under 1 hour drive away for us.
I'll be there for most of the setup for our stand, and maybe walk the show on the last day and then be there for breakdown. We travel the NEC is just under 1 hour drive away for us.
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King_Jut
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UPDATE.......
just finished the alt job.......took out the back tin wear by the fan........left hand side tin......undid adjuster bolt on alt....got underneath....undid bottom bolt...(long one) quick blow with hammer.....undid monting bracket (goes from exhaust joint (i did have top bolt missing......) wiggle alt and move very quickly as it nearly fell on my face.......45min max....i have no idea why my engine seems to be so different to your nige....be good to hook up and check them.....those thermal reactors must be a real nitemare to work around.....
unfortunatly...the type 2 alt...dont fit.....its very different....so its off to the repair shop for that one......funny how you miss your car so badly when you cant just get in and drive it........
just finished the alt job.......took out the back tin wear by the fan........left hand side tin......undid adjuster bolt on alt....got underneath....undid bottom bolt...(long one) quick blow with hammer.....undid monting bracket (goes from exhaust joint (i did have top bolt missing......) wiggle alt and move very quickly as it nearly fell on my face.......45min max....i have no idea why my engine seems to be so different to your nige....be good to hook up and check them.....those thermal reactors must be a real nitemare to work around.....
unfortunatly...the type 2 alt...dont fit.....its very different....so its off to the repair shop for that one......funny how you miss your car so badly when you cant just get in and drive it........
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912uk
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I thought I had a 12E wire sheet but I have looked though all my books and nope.... All I can say is the wireing should be the same as the 911s 1976 but with changes to the engine and other 911S elements. I would ask some of the US guys about the loom. If it is 912 loom with some updates then that is easy but I still think it's 911S 1976 with 912E changes.
BTW if 912 then there are some very good diagrames on Charley Whites web site.
I do have a large copy of what he has If you need any details.
Last comment yep even my 69 is off the road with a disy that seams to do what ever it wants ecpet spark at the right time....hmmm.
BTW if 912 then there are some very good diagrames on Charley Whites web site.
I do have a large copy of what he has If you need any details.
Last comment yep even my 69 is off the road with a disy that seams to do what ever it wants ecpet spark at the right time....hmmm.
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Nige
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45 minutes flat, that'll be my info/help 
my main problem was removing the heat exchanger, doesn't yours have them then?
The type 2 alt is totally different as it not a type 4 engine, they're two very different things, think the 912e alt is only fitted to the 912e and late 2L 914s
I've been without mine since last October!
They are abit of an oddity, it wouldn't surprise me if no two 912e's are the same, I hate to pin it with this tag but it is abit of a parts bin special in the engine dept.
Keep us posted
my main problem was removing the heat exchanger, doesn't yours have them then?
The type 2 alt is totally different as it not a type 4 engine, they're two very different things, think the 912e alt is only fitted to the 912e and late 2L 914s
I've been without mine since last October!
They are abit of an oddity, it wouldn't surprise me if no two 912e's are the same, I hate to pin it with this tag but it is abit of a parts bin special in the engine dept.
Keep us posted