964 Backdate

[MonkeyChap]

Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find anything by searching the forum.

Having just sold our 2.2S, I was thinking of getting something that's a bit more of a daily-driver (weekends probably) that could be backdated to look like our old car over time (easy bits done by me, difficult bits by a pro). The obvious candidate would be a 3.2 G50, but the prices for a good solid one are getting pretty scary. Nick Moss suggested I might want to look at a 964 and pointed out this backdate:

http://www.psautomobile.de/angebote_details?id=163

...which looks like a cracker, though the lighting might be hiding a few details.

I was wondering if anyone on here had tried it, and if there were any significant gotchas with a 964 compared to a 3.2 ? Nick mentioned that 964s have a lower floor and so need a bit more work to make them look correct.

I've also seen the Singers, but I think that's a bit extreme for my needs (and budget).

[Nige]

I would imagine finding a decent base 964 and making it look backdated will cost more than a backdating an impact bumper. Main issues are different suspension with very different wheel offsets so rim choice is limited and potentially expensive. You've then got to figure what to do with the sill trims. PS AutoArt do a pretty decent 964 backdate, but it still don't look right.
http://www.psautoart.com/ps-cars/Retro-Touring/456

Personally I'd find the best Impact Bumper model you can find and help it lose a little weight and you'll end up with cracking everyday car that will increase in value.

The days of finding a cheap 964 are rapidly disappearing if not already.

[MonkeyChap]

Some better pics here:

http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazin ... p?id=15936

...maybe the sill trim doesn't work so well

[shoestring7]

Personally I think the 964 is a good starting point for a daily driver back date, if you can get over the slight cosmetic compromises.

The general level of refinement, lack of wind noise, improved heating and ventilation, modernised electrical system, grunty and economical engine and usual 911 practicality make it a very liveable proposition. The 964 is also the last hand-built money-no-object car Porsche built, as well as the last using the trad. 911 profile. I can see why Singer are now using it as the starting point for their cars.

The only downside is that the availability of very good cars is now poor, and prices have hardened significantly in the past 24 months or so.

And I write as someone with both a 964 and an older car in my garage.

Charles

[Nick Moss]

The comment regarding rims offsets has now been sorted by Fuchs, who now supply proper Fuchs in 17" and 18" sizes with 964 offsets. I had a very good look at the PS Automobile 964 "ST" at Essen and thought it very well done. It should be at €138K. PS will supply me all the trick bits if someone wants me to build one.

[Drmark]

If you did build one Nick what sort of ball park money are we talking about on top of donor 964 ?Assuming full rebuild of box and engine, refreshed suspension plus backdating with those new Fuchs?

[sdelan]

" Having just sold our 2.2S, "

Hi Ian - sorry for the tangent - but I was interested to know about the sale of the 2.2S - has it gone to a good home etc?

regards
Sean

[Nick Moss]

If you did build one Nick what sort of ball park money are we talking about on top of donor 964 ?Assuming full rebuild of box and engine, refreshed suspension plus backdating with those new Fuchs?

To build one from a bare Ecoated shell, with everything new or refreshed would be around £80K including VAT. As they say, quality doesn't come cheap

PS Automobile do not baremetal the shell surprisingly.

[MonkeyChap]

Hi Sean,

Yes, I think it really did go to a good home. Very nice guy and very keen to drive the car instead of just storing it as an investment. He was originally going to do a rolling resto, but has decided to bite the bullet and bare-metal the car. The car went off on the trailer today....sniff....blub....sniff....

I'd quite like to backdate a 3.2 (or 964) now...got the bug.

[sdelan]

Excellent news Ian re 2.2 - was it bought by a DDK-er ?? Hopefully it'll re-appear here at some point !

I'm very interested in your Thread re backdated 964s - I agree with Nige that the Paul Stephens 964 conversion doesn't work that well though.

What about a monster 964 RS Lightweight rep of sorts??

I'm currently obsessed with some of the hot-rods available in the US - there still seems to be some great cars to be had if ya went down that route!

Great fun what ever way ya go !

regards
Sean

[MonkeyChap]

Hi Sean,

He's not on DDK, and I'm not sure it would be his thing. I'll let him know though.

Re backdate, I'm on a very tight budget, so initial aim is to just get a nice 3.2 or 964 that's solid and hopefully vaguely the right colour (and not one of the really nasty interior colours). Just got a dealer to send me close-ups of the door lock plates on 3.2...rust bubbling up there and under the headlights. Probably skip that one. There's another one that's category D and quite high mileage, but seems solid and the accident was just damage to the rear IB which was uneconomical to repair. Not sure whether a Cat D car is a good idea though.

[Drmark]

If you did build one Nick what sort of ball park money are we talking about on top of donor 964 ?Assuming full rebuild of box and engine, refreshed suspension plus backdating with those new Fuchs?

To build one from a bare Ecoated shell, with everything new or refreshed would be around £80K including VAT. As they say, quality doesn't come cheap

PS Automobile do not baremetal the shell surprisingly.

So 95k including donor? Great car - but ouch! But quality...

[IanMcLeod]

...Re backdate, I'm on a very tight budget, so initial aim is to just get a nice 3.2 or 964 that's solid and hopefully vaguely the right colour ...

A decent 3.2 or 964 is going to cost you closer to 20K than 10K these days so depends how tight your budget is. Good cars are hard to find though and there is a lot of dross out there.

Ian.

[72911E]

but at 80K for a backdate. I would rather have a genuine 964RS

[GP911]

Hi Ian,
I would imagine if you find a good rust free 3.2 at a good price and you use it as a daily driver the rust will find you in a few years time, unless some of the usual original panels have been replaced recently.
I have been using my 3.2 as a daily for nearly 10 years now and it was rust free when I purchased it, had some work done a few years ago but now will need door shuts, wings replaced/repaired. It gets a lot of use in all weathers and conditions. The de-mist and heating system in mine is good, I removed all the components of the system, including all blower motors, had 2 refurbed (foot-well) and replaced 2 (luggage comp and engine bay), it is obviously not up to modern car standards but for those who state it is poor, that's not the case.

Good luck with the search, Gwyn.