hi all, i'm in the process of buying this car providing the extra pictures i requested turn up tonight?
what do people think of the "hell hole" area rust, overall condition of the car
not bothered about paint just just looking for a sound starting point
opinions welcomed before i commit tonight
cheers
andy
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche- ... t-car.html
help i need opinions on this car pics now added
Moderators: drummerboytom, MdR
help i need opinions on this car pics now added
Last edited by arw1 on Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Barry
- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:50 pm
- Location: East Sussex
My first impression, quite aside from the rust shown, is that any car that has had 'that' kind of respray is highly likely to have been quickly tarted up. If the people doing the work don't even spend the time to mask up suspension, brakes etc, the chances are that they've been told to just do a quick job.
The hell hole pics aren't very clear, but again, if I was buying it, I'd be very much fearing the worst I think.
I guess if you went in simply allowing for it to be a donor for a resto project, and knowing that you'll quite likely be in for a whole heap of work (and you are happy with the price on that basis), then fine.
If on the other hand, you are hoping for it to arrive with no issues other than those pictured and described, I suspect you may be disappointed.
My overall impression of the great majority of the U.S. cars is that they need quite a bit more work than the descriptions suggest to get them to a standard that we would be happy with in the U.K. This is probably less true of cars that are being sold as un-molested originals, but very much so with this sort of project.
Still, judging by your comments, you're clearly expecting some work to do, and I see the price is a little better now. I don't know how much you'd have to pay for a U.K. based 914/6 conversion at the moment, or even a project 914, a suitable 911 engine plus all of the bits you'd need?
Against that, shipping? Duties? etc etc.
No conclusion from me though I'm afraid: I suspect it's going to be a bit of a gamble, where you might end up with very little useable for your money, or you could land on your feet having found it was more solid and honest than suspected.
I'd be interested to know what you do. Either way, good luck with your search
.
The hell hole pics aren't very clear, but again, if I was buying it, I'd be very much fearing the worst I think.
I guess if you went in simply allowing for it to be a donor for a resto project, and knowing that you'll quite likely be in for a whole heap of work (and you are happy with the price on that basis), then fine.
If on the other hand, you are hoping for it to arrive with no issues other than those pictured and described, I suspect you may be disappointed.
My overall impression of the great majority of the U.S. cars is that they need quite a bit more work than the descriptions suggest to get them to a standard that we would be happy with in the U.K. This is probably less true of cars that are being sold as un-molested originals, but very much so with this sort of project.
Still, judging by your comments, you're clearly expecting some work to do, and I see the price is a little better now. I don't know how much you'd have to pay for a U.K. based 914/6 conversion at the moment, or even a project 914, a suitable 911 engine plus all of the bits you'd need?
Against that, shipping? Duties? etc etc.
No conclusion from me though I'm afraid: I suspect it's going to be a bit of a gamble, where you might end up with very little useable for your money, or you could land on your feet having found it was more solid and honest than suspected.
I'd be interested to know what you do. Either way, good luck with your search
.DDK Member1243 07741 273865. Now booking Spring '24. Home of the RY Austin 7 Trophy's
Barry's advice is spot on. This is a 914 converted to a six, that was originally green and has been painted by Animal from the muppets. If it were me I would not buy this car WITHOUT seeing it in the flesh. Whenever I buy a car that so obviously will need some welding and restoration work, experience has learnt me over the years not to jump in without having a good once over in the flesh. Otherwise assume it's 3times worse than it looks on the pictures. This to me has a resotration project written all over it that will need some seroius welding/fabrication work.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
-
amallagh
- I need to get out more!
- Posts: 3081
- Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:27 pm
- Location: Cheshire, England
Andy,
it is clearly not an original 914/6 with that chassis number but someone has tried hard to convert it by fitting what looks like on original six mount (not sure what that thick bar/tube is in front of it in the pictures?) and what look like 914/6 rear calipers.
Car has clearly been messed around with welding and colour changes from the original green colour that you can see everywhere and there are a few rust holes. I'd be very suspicious about that new red paint job given the care and attention that they clearly haven't taken masking out before painting. If the overspray is anything to go by then it could be covering other poor repairs or filler.
With what the hell hole area looks like from the outside then I would assume it is all but corroded away on the inside. My experience is that if you can see light rust on the outside it will only mushroom when you start hacking away at it. For it to be sound on the inside it needs to be perfect on the outside and even then that is no guarantee.
As long as you are going into this with your eyes open and are prepared to do a lot of welding in the rear arm and hell hole area then it could still make a good basis for a quality conversion because it has a lot of the other bits you need and are expensive to get like the engine, rear brakes, engine mount (assuming it is done properly?). The main floor area also looks reasonable but would need to see under the carpets to be sure.
Have you seen it yourself or had it inspected by a 914 expert in the US ?
Good luck with it.
it is clearly not an original 914/6 with that chassis number but someone has tried hard to convert it by fitting what looks like on original six mount (not sure what that thick bar/tube is in front of it in the pictures?) and what look like 914/6 rear calipers.
Car has clearly been messed around with welding and colour changes from the original green colour that you can see everywhere and there are a few rust holes. I'd be very suspicious about that new red paint job given the care and attention that they clearly haven't taken masking out before painting. If the overspray is anything to go by then it could be covering other poor repairs or filler.
With what the hell hole area looks like from the outside then I would assume it is all but corroded away on the inside. My experience is that if you can see light rust on the outside it will only mushroom when you start hacking away at it. For it to be sound on the inside it needs to be perfect on the outside and even then that is no guarantee.
As long as you are going into this with your eyes open and are prepared to do a lot of welding in the rear arm and hell hole area then it could still make a good basis for a quality conversion because it has a lot of the other bits you need and are expensive to get like the engine, rear brakes, engine mount (assuming it is done properly?). The main floor area also looks reasonable but would need to see under the carpets to be sure.
Have you seen it yourself or had it inspected by a 914 expert in the US ?
Good luck with it.
-
Ian Gunney
- DDK 1st, 2nd and 3rd for me!
- Posts: 2287
- Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:42 am
- Location: Cardiff
It does have a lot of good bits which you would have to source if you were going to convert a 4 from scratch. There are some worrying rust holes apparent, but have seen worse - I guess economics will depend on how good you are at welding....
1966 912 Karmann Coupe - polo red.
1972 914/6 GT replica - 2.7 - signal orange.
1961 Standard 217 Tractor.
2003 Boxster S.
1967 Alfa Giulia Sprint GT Veloce.
http://www.redcastleclassics.com
1972 914/6 GT replica - 2.7 - signal orange.
1961 Standard 217 Tractor.
2003 Boxster S.
1967 Alfa Giulia Sprint GT Veloce.
http://www.redcastleclassics.com
-
Barry
- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:50 pm
- Location: East Sussex
As has been said, the fact that these areas are even showing says that there will be a significant amount of still-hidden rust to deal with. So to answer your question: yes, almost certainly.
I return to my original point re: the painting though. Anyone who has painted over actual rust holes is almost certainly doing it so that it looks O.K. in pictures, probably with a view to flogging it to an overseas punter who hasn't had it inspected.
I'd still value it on the basis that it's a 914 resto project, but with (hopefully) the bits you'll need to maintain the conversion. Again, in the absence of firm, guaranteed evidence to the contrary, I'd be assuming that the engine is simply a base to work from, and if it turns out to be good, then it's a bonus.
My overall concern is that by time you factor in: major welding (almost definite), bare metal re-paint (essential, you won't be able to go over what's there), some element of mechanical building (highly likely), importing with shipping, insurances and taxes, transport to your workshop, registering etc etc etc, plus the inevitable restoration spread (interior improvements, brakes, suspension detailing) etc etc, you could easily end up at a far, far higher costs than buying a U.K. car from one of the known 914 fraternity. It's a close knit group without being cliquey (sp?), and would certainly look after you if a U.K. car came to light.
Sorry, I seem to have written a rather negative post, but I'm somewhat at the sharp end of rusty cars, and so see on a regular basis how involved these projects can get. On the other hand, I can also say that almost everything is saveable, and if you have the skills yourself to do all or most of the work, the costs tumble. Just remember that by the same token, if you do everything yourself, then a year or two on a project car is nothing at all ...
Best of luck (either way)
.
I return to my original point re: the painting though. Anyone who has painted over actual rust holes is almost certainly doing it so that it looks O.K. in pictures, probably with a view to flogging it to an overseas punter who hasn't had it inspected.
I'd still value it on the basis that it's a 914 resto project, but with (hopefully) the bits you'll need to maintain the conversion. Again, in the absence of firm, guaranteed evidence to the contrary, I'd be assuming that the engine is simply a base to work from, and if it turns out to be good, then it's a bonus.
My overall concern is that by time you factor in: major welding (almost definite), bare metal re-paint (essential, you won't be able to go over what's there), some element of mechanical building (highly likely), importing with shipping, insurances and taxes, transport to your workshop, registering etc etc etc, plus the inevitable restoration spread (interior improvements, brakes, suspension detailing) etc etc, you could easily end up at a far, far higher costs than buying a U.K. car from one of the known 914 fraternity. It's a close knit group without being cliquey (sp?), and would certainly look after you if a U.K. car came to light.
Sorry, I seem to have written a rather negative post, but I'm somewhat at the sharp end of rusty cars, and so see on a regular basis how involved these projects can get. On the other hand, I can also say that almost everything is saveable, and if you have the skills yourself to do all or most of the work, the costs tumble. Just remember that by the same token, if you do everything yourself, then a year or two on a project car is nothing at all ...
Best of luck (either way)
.DDK Member1243 07741 273865. Now booking Spring '24. Home of the RY Austin 7 Trophy's
-
Lightweight_911
- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
- Posts: 16915
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:48 pm
- Location: Worcs/W Mids border
Agree with what others have said about the car but there are a lot of original 914/6 parts on the car & the conversion looks to have been done correctly - if you were planning on carrying out a 'six' conversion then you can spend an awfull lot of time (& money) tracking down the necessary parts.
However, don't expect this car to be an undiscovered bargain - it is being sold by the owner of Planet9eleven who are essentially a Porsche parts business so they know the value of what's included.
Having said that, I've had dealings with Cory Jump (the seller) - I bought a set of 9" & 11" Fuchs from him several years ago & they were exactly as described - & he has a good reputation both on Pelican & as an ebay seller.
However, don't expect this car to be an undiscovered bargain - it is being sold by the owner of Planet9eleven who are essentially a Porsche parts business so they know the value of what's included.
Having said that, I've had dealings with Cory Jump (the seller) - I bought a set of 9" & 11" Fuchs from him several years ago & they were exactly as described - & he has a good reputation both on Pelican & as an ebay seller.
Andy
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights;
- subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights;
- subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”
-
fourteener
- DDK rules my life!
- Posts: 1318
- Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: staffs