DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Ashley James wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:23 am My ex Dem 718 was a nightmare. Turbo failed, heater fan failed (VW problem for years) battery failed, stone chips all down each side in a year. Porsche didn’t fit a protective coating, software stopped demisting of driver’s side window, indicator switch failed etc. I got so fed up with it I went back to Merc and traded it for C300 AMG Cabriolet.

I’ve had three C class and two problems. Wrongly adjusted micro switch kept bonnet light open on and a failed chip stopped passenger window opening.

I bought a 10 year old, 15,000 mile 981S in perfect condition and I’ve done 1500 miles. It’s a lovely car, doesn’t handle or go as well as a 2L 718, but engine is quieter, adaptive suspension better and multi adjustable seat too.

So far the engine mounts failed, £2,500, battery failed £168 (not OEM but longer guarantee), heater fan stopped, works if prodded, but about £900 if replaced by Porsche and a service £900.

Merc on Service agreement £35 per month and 4 new tyres. Similar mileage to both late Boxsters.

The 987 had many more problems by 58,000.

As I understand it, anything pre 981/991 has lots of expensive issues because they’re not as well corrosion protected, because of bore scoring and IMS issues.

I love the 981, but I’m apprehensive of future issues. VW is ailing, propped up by government and $193 billion in debt, overweight management expenses etc, Porsche and Ducati are for sale etc.

I believe Mercedes might be the only really successful German company in the top 20 world’s most valuable and it shows. The endless arrival of new or advanced technology etc. A 2 litre 4 giving 470bhp in the new S Class for example.

And if reliability issues aren’t serious enough, have a look at this.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ck8z11vp ... MyMTA2M2Y=

Wow, that’s shocking!

That is simply terrible.
That is not just poor design, but terrible manufacturing (body dipping to start with) but also terrible testing and development. Rubbish!
Also, it is across the other group products in the VAG.

Nine One One wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:02 am What issues are the Taycans suffering is it cold wether related?

Software mainly. Mine needs to go in for three days as they need to allow a day for each upgrade! Booked 3 weeks ago, first slot 25th Jan! We have lots at work and most of the issues seems to be with the early cars, 12v battery drain issues, brakes but software glitches in the main. Some of the most annoying ones affect all newish VW, Audi my personal hate is if you have CarPlay but want to listen to the radio EVERY time you get in the car the radio works for 30 seconds till the phone connects then you need to go through the menu to get the radio back on….it’s the little things

I find driving an aircooled car with no need to use the radio a decent therapy….. just wish they were on my company car list!

Nine One One wrote:What issues are the Taycans suffering is it cold wether related?

I hope they get them all sorted by the time my new Sport Turismo GTS arrives this time next year…

hot66 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:13 pm

DustyM wrote:I haven’t read it but has this been biased by all the issues with the Taycan?


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From the article :

"The data represents only cars that are outside their manufacturer warranties, meaning the minimum age for the sample is three years. The maximum age for cars included in the analysis is 10 years."

Ian Comerford wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:10 pm Wow, that’s shocking!

I am not shocked because this is not a new or unique model issue or even a personal falling out of someone getting a Friday afternoon car.
A good example of this would be Harry Metcalfes review of a yellow GT4 RS. It had cracked glass, the inlet manifold was taped up that brought a engine warning light when driven hard on video, as there was an air pressure imbalance between the two banks.This car is a Porsche GB car, not a Fred in a Shed lending you his daily.
There is no need to rush the demonstrator out because demand is flat, there is a waiting list of over a year and most RS, Special models or paint options require you to be spending over £400,000 in the last 2 years on non GT models. Want to get your car before other people? Buy more options. Carbon fibre trim or leather lined is a simple way that they allocate slots.
I would also question the pricing of a premium model Porsche, on one side you have a person looking at a Cayman, Macan, Taycan or 911T and man mathing it as a £70-120,000 car, you can't criticise reviewers because on paper, this is stacked against the competitors as a like for like. But you can't walk into a dealership, pay for a base 911T and in the 2 days takes to build a 911 you can drive it from Zuffenhausen. This buffer has taken years to develop. I cannot criticise Porsche as a business for this because by making the price point artificially low people are cross shopping it with other low volume cars. In theory they could charge £600,000 for a GT3RS and the demand would still be there, in fact they could double or even quadruple most of their car prices and there would still be a queue. That is what they do at Lamborghini.
One might question the poor material choice and shoddy servicing given the brand, but this is where they are aimed at. I would also not hold your breath for the servicing to get better, as this again feeds into the machine, as most are leased or pcp and they will look at what you have spent with them too so the worse the car is the more money they make at a dealership. Why should Porsche GB pay for something if you or the guy wanting your slot will?
Only BMW miffed off a more loyal client base, Tesla are asking them to hold their beer at the moment.
Weirdly Porsche could build less, better built cars and offer a higher standard of after care. But why should they?

So what reliable, premium daily should we be buying then?

Simplest one you can find, which will be really hard.
IMHO it is the obsession with complexity that is the issue, auto everything from gears to windscreen washers to tyre pressure levels to seat positions etc etc let alone all the infotainment links and all that jazz.
Or just buy one with the most comprehensive Warrante.

Does a simple car exist?

Actually my I-Pace has been 100% reliable over the past two years, no complaints at all and that’s super-complex with auto-everything including over-the-air software updates. Only issue is crap range in these temperatures, but 38-mile round trip commute isn’t a problem.

Most reliable car? I am on my second BMW diesel after a succession of SAABs then Audis: Quatro, A8 and A4 turbo. The latter was a disaster with engine failure at 65k due to failed oil pump, issues with on plug coils and much else.
My first BMW 530D did 205k miles with the usual tires and brakes required and one rear brake pipe replaced. The second and current BMW 430 D is on 120k miles. So far brake disks and pads and tires. Perhaps I have been lucky?

Sadness on the misery of owning a car you love and that is totally and unacceptably unreliable.

My first 987 was my neighbour’s and she drove it slowly, but at 55,000 until I sold it for a 718, it cost about 8,500 in repairs over about 10,000 miles.

My 718 was ex dem with under 2000 miles and I took it to 12,500 and four new tyres. It was very fast and better handling, but so many problems I despaired and traded it for my third utterly reliable Mercedes, a C300 AMG Cabriolet. Three years on, it’s been perfect.

I missed the Boxster so found a 981S with everything on it in silver with red trim. It’s absolutely beautiful, not as fast as the 2L car unless you rev the hell out of it and not quite such secure handling. Nevertheless it’s a keeper, but for the endless issues I’ve had with it.

I’ve only done about 1500 miles in it and it’s just coming up to 18,000 miles. So far it’s had two engine mounts for £2,500, both of which has already failed as they are on the current models. A switch on the brake pedal failed for £200, an immobiliser for £ 3or 400 and the heater fan, which went on the 718 as well.

I presume the problem is VW’s parts bin. They’ve recently and proudly announced they’ve forced lower prices out of suppliers, which is a recipe for not getting parts reliable in 12 years of production

Sorry to moan, but I wondered if anyone else has been unlucky

This is a familiar story line to several posts on the PCGB Boxster/Cayman forum.

My 2009 987.2 2.9 engine is as simple as they made them except for Bioneonthingy lights which are superb.
The car is good. Not great, but after 8 years of ownership and a few ups n downs still with me and at a leggy 82,000 miles. I've done 42K of those, it is doing around 5K /year with me.
Oddly, seems more reliable than when younger!

Hugging a large oak tree, it is all working, but needs some TLC such as wheels starting to corrode etc, but it is reliable, a great touring car and utterly practical.
So much is still original build, all the suspension is original and silent, rear brakes original and the clutch also.

It has had:
Exhaust bolts, many coolant hoses, A/C rads etc,
Driver's side window regulator, 3 AOS's, front pads and discs, 2 sets of Bridgestone tyres third set close, 2 wiper blades and a LOT of premature oil changes, all the service parts and a battery, and the clutch operated start relay.

Still failed on us in Austria last year, but the RAC sorted it in less than 24 hours as I had the right spare part in the boot. (plug coil top)

Over the 6 years there has been a string of smallish jobs, none over £400 and 80% have been DIY unless I have thought the job to difficult on my back, ie exhaust/cat bolts.

I have it serviced at a great indie just to show full service history when the day comes to say good bye.

If I could i would buy a new style BMW Z4 but they are expensive for the big engine and very large, the 987.2 is true to being a narrow body car.

Lastly, and possibly most importantly, the wife likes it and a Z4 too but we are getting close to finding getting out of these cars becoming a trial.

The Boxster is the only car to let us down in the last 20 years.(twice)
My 73T hot rod has never failed.

In the 80's I had 3 Rover 800's, and they all repeatedly broke down everywhere....

Bear in mind this supposed "least reliable car make" counts among its metrics the cost of repairs, so to some degree it's simply a chart of the "most expensive car make".

If you divided all the repair costs by the cars' retail prices, you'd get a new chart showing their actual reliability, most likely with Porsche faring a lot better.

On a prima facie this one looks like a case of lies, damned lies and statistics - exactly what you'd expect from a company that wants to sell warranties to people with deep pockets.

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911hillclimber wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:07 pm terrible manufacturing (body dipping to start with)

What's wrong with body dipping? (if you meant E-coat etc)

Yes, the ecote applied at the factory and in key places the stone chip thereafter.

I have had deep surface rust on both sill leading faces (wheel grit thrown up) and have repaired this and stuck some ABS guards on each side, fix that issue.
Rust also on the small flaring mouldings at the end of the OS sill, no road rash yet has deep surface rust.

My Skoda Superb has none of this at a similar miles and winter driven.