New Car Woes - 1...Update

[stretch]

That's a proper bodge on an S.
Surely a craftsman could bend and braze a bit of brass on a top of the range 911.
?

[hot66]

You’d have thought so especially if opening up a sill

[markm]

I would agree. Do it once (or twice) and do it right.

You’d of thought this first time given the amount of money spent on the car

[911hillclimber]

Don't agree.
Brazing would be too close to the melting point of the tube
The flame to braze will burn a large area around it while heating all the elements up. The surfaces of the sill and around it will be toast with a gas burning flame.
Getting the braze to flow by capillary action needs the heat to be very even or it will chill and you will have a hole to leak oil.

Silver solder will have the same obstacles.
For these processes you need to get heat to the joint and the tube will be acting as a large heat sink, so the flame has to be held for minutes.

Any fix is going to be a compromise, replacing the tubes will be the only fix, but what a pain and expense. Personally, I like the idea of sliding an aeroquip hose down the existing pie where the final connections are almost hidden.
Doubt that will compromise the flow to the cooling much; not as if this car if living in southern California screaming through mountain passes.

Just my 2p.

[Berny]

We used to use a special rod for brazing brass and copper it was called cupprol or something like that was made by SIF

[sisu]

As this is a bodge - a rubber pipe held in with a jubilee clip instead of a complete pipe you are up against it. My initial thought would be to replace the rubber hose with a pre bent hose from pirtek and use a spring clip instead of a jubilee, spring clips maintain their force regardless of temperature, which is why they are used on oil/fuel/coolant lines.
By the looks of your photo has the rubber section just been there to join the straight pipe in the sill and the one going up into the b-pillar then just oversprayed the issue?
If you are able to clean the sill and this area then it would be easier to isolate where the leak is coming from rather than just squeeze the jubilee clip onto a shagged rubber section as you will crush the pipe.
If you can flare the pipe when you have it apart that may help this bodge, but it is not easy to work on in this area. The remote oil cooler might be the answer so you can drive the car until you can have the major work done to have the complete pipe replaced correctly.

[johnM]

Hi Jason

Sorry to hear about your woe's. I would think that the rubber hose is leaking due to the jubilee clip crushing the original oil line. These line are quite soft. As a temporary repair and if you could get access could you not fit a tube support into the hard oil line to prevent the line from collapsing when the jubilee clip is tightened down. Similar to the inserts you use on plumbing plastic tube to stop them collapsing. It would possible have to be turned up on a lather to fit unless a suitable sized one could be sourced.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/jg-speedfit- ... lsrc=aw.ds

[PorscheBarry]

Given the situation to avoid the work and expense of doing it correctly when I worked in the AC industry it was common to sleeve a burst pipe in a heat exchanger by cutting the bends off and sliding a secondary copper pipe inside the original and brazing connectors at each end, the reduction in pipe volume flow rate was only about 15% what I don’t know is the access at the front end of the oil pipe to carry out this geometry of fix.

[Alan @ CanfordClassics]

To give this thread a little more clarity. Any repair to the pipe in situ is inherently a trial and see repair. Selected due to cost and in some cases time. This was discussed last time and agreed to trial a brazed repair. The only correct way is to replace the line. Previous mentioned ideas on this thread are again simply attempts to repair and hope it seals. There is very little space, movement and it is not possible to slice the line and replace a section. Our attempt was to braze the line in situ, which is inherently difficult as the lines are filled with oil which makes the job very difficult as it contaminates the area being brazed and also you are doing all this upside down. The attempt was agreed and repaired. This repair worked In that it sealed the line as the car left here dry in 2019, it went to a few shows plus was recently sold (not by ourselves) and the images used seem to show no oil leaks. See here (sorry not sure how to paste a direct link) 2021

https://flic.kr/p/2mDuANn

The rubber pipe is not the repair it was simply used to separate the lines from knocking together. If you need to increase visibility simply remove it. Clearly it looks like the repair has now failed, or there is another potential fatigue fracture, hence the only way to have true confidence is to remove the line and replace or attempt to repair whilst off the car. The line needs fully cleaning out first and also they need to be pressure tested before being installed. The body and paint was done in 2013 and I don’t have pics to see how they were installed.

Any repair in situ runs the risk of only be a temporary repair just like the previous attempt. Hindsight is wonderful and no repair on any restoration is intended to fail. Thus, rather than make the same mistake I suggest doing it by removing the sill and lower section of the rear wing. The kidney bowl will also have to be removed. Remove the front wing and i suspect the front wing closure panel will need to be slotted to remove the line and/or fit another. I estimate this to be 3 days and then paint. Plus parts and materials. I have mentioned the offer of help before and I’m willing to do so. Whilst I feel this can’t be a warranty repair, due to the agreement on the repair being undertaken in 2019, I can still offer a reduced rate and reduction on materials using our paint scheme, as I completely understand your frustration.

Thanks
Alan

[964RS]

Hi Alan - can you PM me a quote then to do it properly with a new pipe then please and I’ll consider that also

[Berny]

Hope you can get this sorted Jason the only way is to do it properly and then it will last.

[964RS]

Agreed Berny although wallet hadn’t planned on this so soon and got lots of other outlay at the moment so will just have to see

Getting a bit tired of old cars needing money spending on them…hoped I’d avoided it with this bugger!

At least I’m not into boats I guess…

[hot66]

Could have been worse … could have been a yellow car and they never run right

[Martin P]

So,
if that pipe fully failed on a warm engine at high speed the results would be catastrophically expensive engine failure.
The original repair was a temporary bodge on the high pressure side of the system. Something that was inevitably going to fail in some manner.
The area where the pipe ruptured originally is around the region most likely to get corrosion but indicates that the rest of the pipe is in a perilous state so cannot be relied on.
The car is a 2.2 S, it cannot be bodged again.
So realistically only two choices.
Do it properly and expensively with pipes through the sills with all the hassle that involves .
Do the later external pipe option which is far less elegant but safe and long lasting as long as some pleb doesn't jack it up on the pipe.
I would choose option one even though it will be a pain in the wallet.
I'm sure that during winter cruising a temporary bypass would suffice but in the long term greater cooling will be better
The idea of a oil rad in the back mentioned by some will improve things but really those pipes carry perhaps 2 litres of oil and that extra volume of oil surely has to be a big factor

[Sam]

If you’re not bothered about originality it would be worth a chat with Pro Alloy or someone to see whether oil cooler and oil tech has moved on sufficiently to replace the front one with just a custom bigger / improved rear one. My suspicion is not but it might have.