OT: land/property/building expertise

[gridgway]

My daughter wants a house build project, buying some land and designing and building a house. All in the Kent, Surrey, Berkshire area ish.

I think that's all a bit mad and very unlikely to happen, but I said that I knew where exactly the place was where there would be some expertise to help out with words of wisdom!

And unusually (hah) it's a subject I really don't know anything about!

So is there anyone on here with land buying/construction expertise who would be happy to talk to her and advise?

Cheers
Graham

[mycar]

Sounds fairly straight forward.

Does she have a preferred method of construction, or better still, a style of house in mind ?

[Sam]

Whenever she’s ready to fit her solar panels give me a shout, I learnt how to do them today.

[Sam]

[arminius]

Havent done a complete new build using modern techniques - timber frame inner etc, sam is obviously the man on here for this -

But in my experience

1. Hire a private building inspector
2. Build big, get as much in between foundations and roof
3. Pitched roofs work really well! My experience with friends whose homes have been 'modern' architect designed invariably have leaks on flat roofing/parapet wall sections - but they do look better than a traditional house IMO
4. External blocks and render is very fast/pretty good value if you arent committed to facing brickwork
5. Insulate well!
6. Plumbers are the hardest trade to get a commitment from
7. An all included service costs sig more than putting togther a load of tradesmen
8. But probably hire someone to manage this unless you have a reasonable familiarity with the construction process and are across the details
9. Tell her to go for it - its brilliant when its done

[Sam]

Here goes...

The self-build process is like all things in life - none of it is particularly difficult, it’s just how much of the process she has the time and inclination to learn and do herself vs how much she pays someone else to do.

Like restoring a car. You can just ring Dusty and buy his next project when he’s finished knowing it will be a joy, created perfectly from years of experience but not built to your exact spec and you’ll be paying for his time. Or you can fly to America, scour the scrap yards, buy a shell, ship it back, weld it yourself, paint it yourself, rebuild the engine yourself, trim it yourself etc. The end result probably won’t be as perfect as Dusty would do, depending on your level of skill and time to learn, but it’ll be yours, you’ll know every inch of it and you’ll know that every time you look at it, never mind start it up and go for a drive.

She could start by reading The Housebuilder’s Bible by Mark Brinkley.

That ought to give her an idea of where on the continuum she wants to sit from write a cheque and move in to nail every plank herself.

The house I’m building is the 2nd I’ve done, plus a few extensions and renovations. I do it because I like the creative journey and learning process more than the destination. Again, like everything, it’s only as stressful as you make it and that’s mostly inflicted by placing deadlines. Best advice is to relax and not try to stick to a schedule.

I bought a little bungalow with a big garden. Lived there while aguing with an architect and planners for 9 months, moved into a rented house then appointed a main contractor to dig the footings and drains and build the frame. I’ve now stopped working to manage bringing in the skilled trades - roofing, electrics, plumbing and plastering - and am doing all the nailing up of things, digging little holes and shopping myself. It’s mainly shopping. Lots of shopping.

The solar panel thing, for example, started with a quote of £7500 from a local specialist who came top on Google, then another of £5,500, then some shopping for the kit which came to £2700, then a full day learning how it all goes together then 2 days up the scaffold with a drill and wire strippers. If I do them again it’ll take 2 days max, this first time it was a week. Whether that would be a week of her time well spent would depend on a combination of her ability to earn more than the £5k price difference in a week, the urgency of it and whether she’d find it fun fitting solar panels.

[neilbardsley]

I would ask if your daughter has a time consuming job? Does she have a young family to raise? I would guess that a project like this can consume all the time and energy from your life. Plus looking at the projects on here and grand designs they are never on time and always over budget.

That said for the adventurous a great house can be built.

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[theorangeperil]

We built our house 10 years ago. We split the plot of our original house and built the new one where the double garage had been.

6 months before we started I was bought The Housebuilder’s Bible by Mark Brinkley for my birthday. I got a few chapters in and really lost interest. There were a few great tips but overall it was too granular for me. I'm just not wired that way, but I know many on here are far better at that stuff than me.

I tendered with three builders. The one that won it said 'Building a house it easy. People just make it difficult'. Those words really stuck with me.

We drew up our plans carefully and then stuck with them.

We had a shared spreadsheet with the builder and made staged payments every month. We set up a simple contract at the beginning. We held back a sum until the end and settled fully once snagging etc was done. It's all pretty standard stuff apparently.

The builder was amazing and became a friend. We both took a 'big picture' view which helped enormously.

At the time we had two young daughters aged 5 and 6. I'm very busy running my own business.

We lived next door in the old house. There were times when the mud and dust was everywhere, but equally I loved coming home from work and going onto the site to have a nose on what had been done that day.

The main problems we had were keeping neighbours happy but even that wasn't too hard. My main lesson was keep them informed of everything that was happening, ideally as early as possible.

I agree with putting in as much between the roof and foundations as you can. Those are the places where you spend the most money, the stuff in between is relatively cheap. We were limited being in a suburban London Borough with a fairly high building density.

Most of it is as Sam said just shopping. I remember spending a whole weekend mapping out where all the lights went and the electrical sockets. Not a favourite job, but hey first world problems! Then the electrician cut the number of ceiling lights by about 50% of what I though we needed. He was right of course but that's the benefit of using professionals.

I think it's also easy to get obsessive about the spec. Especially being a bloke, we tend to love the tech gadgets don't we. On plan the tiniest things seem so important, but a couple of years after moving in, those things become irrelevant often. Especially some of the tech you can now put in houses, means that in 5 or 10 years stuff may no longer work, may not be supported and you need to make significant changes to update them. I'm rather glad we didn't do the full home automation stuff, there's a lot to be said for having a simple on off button.

So in short I'd say go for it. It's one of the best things we've done, and I'm itching to do another at some point. Just get the right builder, one you feel you can connect with. And for me personally I think having a realistic budget, and sticking to the plan were key. Good luck!

[Berny]

Hi I built this for my mother about 12 years ago on part of my land planning did take some time but councils vary, I did the footings and oversite I had the brickwork done and I did the roof. Fitted a floating floor with celatex insulation under the floor and roof rockwool in the cavity’s it was very insulated and this helps with heating costs.


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[Hugh Jorgan]

I'm no expert, but I've built quite a few now, I'm hooked, it becomes addictive!

I've done extensions, bigger extensions, refurbs, full refurbs, new builds, stone, brick and block and timber frames.
I'd don't think your first one should be the 'one', like many things, it's good to get a few under your belt, it's only then that you know what you like, and you get much better at it....!

The actual building is easy. All the (good) trades know what they're doing.
The client is usually the weak link, indecision not only costs money and time, it frustrates the hell out of the trades.
Your daughter needs to know exactly what she wants long before the build begins, but be prepared to make big decisions on the spot.
The planning/building control bureaucracy drains your will to live.
Don't let the architect design you the house that they want, they get very possessive about the drawings.
Architects don't build houses. Very few seem to have practical experience of what is really possible on site. Good trades will usually get you, and the architect, out of the crap. Architects charge for their mistakes.
Cut costs, don't cut corners. Haggle for every last pound. Never ever take the first, second or third price..... When you're spending, sometimes £10k + a day it's easy to get blase' about money. It's easy to make large savings with a bit of effort.
You've got to insulate really well nowadays to meet building regs requirements but badly installed insulation is a waste of money.

If she plans on staying forever then air source, ground source heat pumps, heat recovery systems and PV panels are probably ok, otherwise the payback time doesn't make sense. They probably are the future but just now they're way too expensive to make sense. (IMHO)
Underfloor heating is trendy but I'd not have it as a primary heat source.
Bifold doors are trendy, but unless she's paying an absolute fortune for German ones, don't bother.
Passive house is trendy but very expensive.

Trades understand brick and block with a pitched roof therefore can do it reasonably well. Everything is possible but the cost goes up steeply.
Timber frame, (SIPS) are fast to get up and get you in the dry and allow your first fix trades to get in. It slows down to a 'normal' pace after that.

Do not go for wacky, experimental, untried, trendy building systems...ever!!! Don't be somebody else's guinea pig.

Look at loads, and loads, and loads of houses. Go round as many building sites as possible.
Get to know building terms, basics, it's like learning a language, but it'll really help.

Getting a builder on a fixed price seems like a good idea but she'll pay dearly for that.
Getting a builder on a penalty clause for 'over time' seems like a good idea, but overspend will eat up any penalty the builder is liable for.

She should be prepared for it to take up her every moment from the point the plot is bought, if it isn't taking up her every moment then she's lost control, and disaster is imminent.
If she's able to take the time to 'manage' the project she should.

I'm looking for another one to build now......

[Sam]

Underfloor heating is trendy but I'd not have it as a primary heat source.

Why is this?

[Hugh Jorgan]

I stress, just my opinion, but based on experience.

Underfloor heating doesn't respond fast enough for UK weather. Ideally you'd leave it on, low, as a background heat.
But.....
It's often chilly/cold on a morning, and you need a blast of heat to warm the house up, UFH isn't designed for that because you have to warm the slab and screed and floor covering and the air in the room, which all takes time.
By late morning its very often sunny/warm and you don't need heating so you can turn rads off and your heat drops. The UFH is just getting up to optimum temp by now, the slab and screed is warming up and releasing the heat, just when you don't need it because it's now warm......

You have to anticipate when you need heat I think with UFH whereas with rads, if it's chilly you can just whack em up..!!

I'm happy to be told all the reasons why I'm wrong. It's just what I've found. We like it warm in the house, I'm not one to sit in the house in a cardigan, I'm shorts and t shirt all year round.

We've put UFH in several houses because it's what people expect from a 'new house', we've got it in the kitchen/diner now but the rads are the main heat source.

Just my opinion.........
+, you can warm your ass on a rad and, dry washing.......

[Sam]

I think that all definitely applies to less insulated houses, but with high levels of insulation houses don’t rise and fall in temperature overnight like they used to.

A well insulated house with decent air tightness will lose a degree or two a day in the winter with the heating off. The whole concept of turning the heating on or off or up or down goes away, it just ticks over quietly in the background on the same setting all year round, the heating never needs to raise the temperature of the house quickly because it never falls quickly.

Friends of ours in Norway have a house so well insulated they don’t have heating at all, it stays warm enough even in Norwegian winters from the background heat generated from the fridge and computer and the people living there. They do have to shout at the kids not to leave the doors open though.

[gridgway]

Wow, thanks all, I'll point her in the direction of this thread.

Perhapsb she'll sign up too as she is a big petrol head like me!

[Jonny Hart]

I stress, just my opinion, but based on experience.

Underfloor heating doesn't respond fast enough for UK weather. Ideally you'd leave it on, low, as a background heat.
But.....
It's often chilly/cold on a morning, and you need a blast of heat to warm the house up, UFH isn't designed for that because you have to warm the slab and screed and floor covering and the air in the room, which all takes time.
By late morning its very often sunny/warm and you don't need heating so you can turn rads off and your heat drops. The UFH is just getting up to optimum temp by now, the slab and screed is warming up and releasing the heat, just when you don't need it because it's now warm......

You have to anticipate when you need heat I think with UFH whereas with rads, if it's chilly you can just whack em up..!!

I'm happy to be told all the reasons why I'm wrong. It's just what I've found. We like it warm in the house, I'm not one to sit in the house in a cardigan, I'm shorts and t shirt all year round.

We've put UFH in several houses because it's what people expect from a 'new house', we've got it in the kitchen/diner now but the rads are the main heat source.

Just my opinion.........
+, you can warm your ass on a rad and, dry washing.......

I would never go back to radiators. Was your heating designed for your house using proper heat calculations for each room?

We've been living in our self-build for 12 years now. It has a Nibe 1240 ground source heat pump and underfloor heating throughout. There is no concept of 'whacking the heating up' - it is always 21 degrees in the house - we never touch the heating controls. It took a bit of getting used to, coming from a normal chilly / damp British house.

The best thing about it is walking round bare foot in the morning with a lovely warm floor. When we come in from the garden, any wet gloves / coats / boots left on the floor are warm and dry by the next morning.