No none electric car sales from 2030??

[neilbardsley]

Just brought forward by 10 years. Madness. I can't see people really wanting that.

[Gary71]

Still keep going to 2035 for hybrids.
Plans are in place for the move.
Just need to government to step up on an infrastructure, particularly for those that don’t have off street parking.

[Bootsy]

Still keep going to 2035 for hybrids.
Plans are in place for the move.
Just need to government to step up on an infrastructure, particularly for those that don’t have off street parking.

That's ok they've got nothing else to spend the money on at the moment - oh. wait

[23e Heure]

A subtle but importantly correction if I may, Neil:

The regulations are designed to reduce and restrict sale of new petrol and diesel powered cars.

These are not regulations to enforce sale of only electric vehicles.

Other alternative fuels and technologies do exist!

[neilbardsley]

DailyFail makes a good point, for the wrong reason, the end of petrol cars will mine a significant reduction in tax revenue.

Can't see the hybrid electric subsidies lasting for long?

Sent from my Redmi 7 using Tapatalk

[bjmullan]

It's all part of the governments great £12 billion green energy investment announcement (most of this is not new money). As a measure of this investment, VW plans to invest £50 billion in electrification over the next 5 years

[911hillclimber]

A reminder of the times changing again, electric everywhere, IF you want to buy a new car then.

Maybe by then all will be well, interesting articles in the Sunday Times last weekend about some of the issues facing the Minister to get the UK ready.
Neil makes a most interesting case though, tax loss on fuel and a the cost to install a working convenient charging infrastructure that fuels out transport system as reliably as we have got used to in recent decades.
And to do this in a very quick timescale.

This will be a good employer for many years to come and all at local level rather than a train line.

Charging points where ever they are will carry a tax and that will balance the books eventually.

[Hugo 356]

the end of petrol cars will mine a significant reduction in tax revenue

Hence Rishi is looking at road pricing again. Driving in France I'm really impressed by the smooth, clear, high speed motorways. Until I have to whack on the brakes, join a long queue, pay almost a year's worth of road tax (to get to Le Mans and back) and have a miserable creature in a booth try & short change me. Really efficient...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu ... -shortfall

[70sThrowback]

watching this with interest. There are the infrastructure issues of course for charging networks , but I am sure I read somewhere about limited lithium etc which means moving everyone to battery was problematic. 10 years is a long time for those currently developing other fuels to come up with a cost effective alternative. I am not going to jump on the EV bandwagon just yet.

[MikeB]

There also the socio-economic side of things, a large part of the country do not drive new cars and are unlikely ever to be able to afford to do so, similarly they cannot be heavily taxed to buy petrol or pay increased road fees. So something else to throw into the pot

[Gary71]

That’s a key point.
ICE engines aren’t going anywhere until all of us are long gone.

[tim69s]

Seems Porsche are looking at how to keep our classics on the road carbon neutral.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/11/17/po ... -the-road/

[210bhp]

This has all happened before.
Grandfather told me about the fear everyone had in 1919 when they were ‘persuaded’ to drop their steam lorries in favour of the ‘new’ petrol engines.

And yet, steam lorries and traction engines still run at events round the country despite no one in the UK digging coal any more.

Instead of hot ash and polluting smoke from steam we turned to polluting petrol and diesel gas emissions and next we will have a mountain of expired batteries to try and get rid of.

Regards
Mike

[deano]

I just punched some numbers, that might be of interest to see how practical a mostly EV future is, based on today's UK electricity generating capacity of 75 GW*:

20 million EVs re-charging during the evening or overnight.

Say 10 kWh each on average to top battery up - this is enough for about 15-25 miles, an average commute.

- that's 200 GWh for the whole country.

UK's generating capacity is 75 GW

- Best case: 200 GWh spread evenly over 24 hours = 8.3 GW for one hour - no problem.
- Worst case: 200 GWh over one peak hour = 200 GW for one hour - roughly 2.6 times the current network capacity.

So, it works as long as the planned 'smart charging' is used to spread the demand/load, which it will be, current generating capacity is sufficient... as long as the peak period of normal electricity use is avoided (this peak is well known, around dinner time).

There are already plans in place to get electricity capacity to where it is needed, beyond our homes e.g. service stations, car parks.

Next problem: If there are say 5 million people that cannot charge at home, they will be forced to charge EV battery in public places, including perhaps some dedicated charging places provided for those people. This will be an impractical proposition for many of those people, and is is a problem that is quite unfixable. Most likely, this issue might drive those people to use alternative fuels and propulsion systems other than EV e.g. hydrogen fuel cells, LPG, compressed air, petrol, diesel (classic cars only??)

Next problem: the practicalities of having enough charging points in public places, to meet 'additional' demand. This strongly depends on the charging at home behaviour. Taking one extreme, if everyone that can is charging at home, there will be no demand from those people, and the only demand will come from those who cannot charge at home. A single charging station will only serve one or two people per hour, so we need one or two per ten EV's. Considering 20 million EV's again takes us to one or two million charging points !!

By comparison, we currently have just over 8000 petrol stations in the UK. Lets put 1 million points in those stations and 1 million on the streets.

- that's 125 charging points per location (in the extreme, if no-one charges at home) - which is entirely impractical in most cases !!

If we say that 5 per (16,000) location is more practical, we would only have public capacity for about 80,000 of those 20,000,000 EVs.

In other words, going mostly EV would only really work if almost everyone was to charge at home....

Sorry, I got carried away...

* https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publicat ... 075.3%20GW

[hot66]

Seems Porsche are looking at how to keep our classics on the road carbon neutral.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/11/17/po ... -the-road/

looks like i better get around to leaning off the idle rack on my MFi or else its an expensive trip to Lemans on the synthetic fuel