Vintage Voltage on Quest.

mycar · Post by **mycar** » Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:36 pm

Fitting your classic car with electric motor is now an option.

Has anybody been watching these programmes ? There's been a fair selection of cars (and a bike) converted to electric, from a Karmann Ghia to a Ferrari 308.

Costs for the conversions range from £26k for a Fiat 500 to £65k for the Ferrari.

Tosh · Post by **Tosh** » Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:37 pm

I've watched a couple so far. Mr Chesil seemed a right grump
Our own Moggy is quite telegenic.
And the show has got me thinking harder about getting something converted but I'd guess Moggy is booked up til the end of the decade at this point.

911hillclimber · Post by **911hillclimber** » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:15 pm

All the subjects have 2 things in common, conversion cost and loss of practicality.

Costs, I guess Teslar are not giving stuff away, but all the batteries remove all the luggage spaces.

Also, why are most donors from Ireland?
The programs are good and have a good tech/entertainment balance required today.

rhd racer · Post by **rhd racer** » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:14 pm

I have watched and quite enjoy them. Have one foot in the electric thing with the wife’s daily, and quite like the idea of her running a classic electric instead, if I could find a car that I wouldn’t prefer more with its original engine! That’s the dilemma for me, and the constantly running windscreen which was dull 30 years ago in a beetle and I would be less tolerant now!

The big question, which I can’t quite get my head around (perhaps Johnny can answer) is;

- there is lots of talk of the ULEV advantages and these being the perfect fit. They might be, but that requires a re-registration to electric
- if you do that, surely it needs an SVA test, and most remain in a classic non compliant SVA state, so surely stuck in a strange middle ground where they cannot truly be used as intended

Unless of course there is an exemption for SVA for electric, but given the performance increases from standard and the modifications required to convert I would be surprised. anyone know?

I liked the bike, thought that was very clever. And the Fezza. I didn’t buy the LED light bit, I bet they are still on the car but they did not want to show that!

I think someone told me the Ghia is SORN’d for some reason

Jonny Hart · Post by **Jonny Hart** » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:56 pm

911hillclimber wrote:All the subjects have 2 things in common, conversion cost and loss of practicality.

Costs, I guess Teslar are not giving stuff away, but all the batteries remove all the luggage spaces.

The Tesla parts are sourced from broken vehicles but are reconditioned. There are a whole load of small scale operations (us included) reverse engineering and developing control electronics to drive this stuff.

Not all cars lend themselves to conversion due to layout. The 911 is not a good candidate IMO since it has little space to put batteries. On the other hand, my own 914 (which is featured in the last episode) will still have the entire rear boot space and half of the front boot available after conversion. It will have 42kWh of battery which is good for 150 miles and 300HP.

Regarding SVA, not required. Change of fuel type to electric, no different to swapping to diesel or LPG or change of engines to build a hot rod. Same points system.

rhd racer · Post by **rhd racer** » Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:23 pm

Thanks Jonny - straight forward then

911hillclimber · Post by **911hillclimber** » Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:57 pm

Interesting.
I met Moggie at Shelsley Walsh hillclimbing in his fab Beetle with electrics, I found him well versed in his future which is obvious in the programs.
Not sure 150 miles is enough for me.

Jonny Hart · Post by **Jonny Hart** » Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:40 pm

911hillclimber wrote:Interesting.
I met Moggie at Shelsley Walsh hillclimbing in his fab Beetle with electrics, I found him well versed in his future which is obvious in the programs.
Not sure 150 miles is enough for me.

Conversely, it’s not good to run a 911 without getting to temperature so that means trips less than 15 miles are not great for the engine. Most of my trips are in this category.

The electric 914 will be an everyday runaround which has no warm up requirement.

I don’t have a modern car so this means more classic motoring for me.

Dean.s · Post by **Dean.s** » Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:30 pm

I had noticed a silver/grey 914 in the last episode with the ferraris. When i was restoring mine i looked into an electric conversion as my car was a rolling shell so no petrol engine to lose. The cost for materials alone was about £16k if i remember correctly. Again 150 mile range for that kind of investment is not just a viable option for me.

takeflight · Post by **takeflight** » Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:27 pm

If you have a shell without an engine, then may be if you don’t mind the cost. Otherwise it’s like having a Rolex and swiping the workings for a Casio. Not only that, it will end up costing more than a Rolex but it it will be worth considerably less. The cost mentioned for the Ferrari was K65 plus the purchase of the shell. If you won’t an EV then buy a new one. Cheaper and probably a lot better.

Gary71 · Post by **Gary71** » Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:50 pm

takeflight wrote:If you want an EV then buy a new one. Cheaper and probably a lot better.

And safer.
Doing EV vehicle safety for a living many of these conversions worry me.
You could argue they are no worse than the poor safety the classic started with, but still seems wrong to put those delicate batteries outside their carefully designed safety cages and controlled heating/cooling systems.
Do they have some method of automatic HV cutoff in an accident?

KS · Post by KS » Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:00 pm

Jonny Hart wrote:
Regarding SVA, not required. Change of fuel type to electric, no different to swapping to diesel or LPG or change of engines to build a hot rod. Same points system.

So you don't cut the structure of the vehicle in any way to accommodate the batteries? The moment you do, you lose the eight points straight away. "Your vehicle must have 8 or more points from the table below if you want to keep the original registration number. 5 of these points must come from having the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame."

Jonny Hart · Post by **Jonny Hart** » Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:51 pm

KS wrote:
Jonny Hart wrote:
Regarding SVA, not required. Change of fuel type to electric, no different to swapping to diesel or LPG or change of engines to build a hot rod. Same points system.
So you don't cut the structure of the vehicle in any way to accommodate the batteries? The moment you do, you lose the eight points straight away. "Your vehicle must have 8 or more points from the table below if you want to keep the original registration number. 5 of these points must come from having the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame."

Nope, the new motor subframe bolts to the original engine and gearbox mounts. The battery boxes are mounted on discrete brackets welded to the monocoque. It is all reversible if need be.

The great thing about the Tesla drivetrain is it fits under the boot floor, leaving the entire engine bay for batteries. There are also batteries in the fuel tank and front bay but still some space for luggage. Rear boot is still free.

I’m losing engine / transmission points only. Exactly the same situation as putting a v8 or Scooby engine in it.

inaglasshouse · Post by **inaglasshouse** » Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:20 pm

Jonny Hart wrote:
KS wrote:
Jonny Hart wrote:
Regarding SVA, not required. Change of fuel type to electric, no different to swapping to diesel or LPG or change of engines to build a hot rod. Same points system.
So you don't cut the structure of the vehicle in any way to accommodate the batteries? The moment you do, you lose the eight points straight away. "Your vehicle must have 8 or more points from the table below if you want to keep the original registration number. 5 of these points must come from having the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame."

Nope, the new motor subframe bolts to the original engine and gearbox mounts. The battery boxes are mounted on discrete brackets welded to the monocoque. It is all reversible if need be.

The great thing about the Tesla drivetrain is it fits under the boot floor, leaving the entire engine bay for batteries. There are also batteries in the fuel tank and front bay but still some space for luggage. Rear boot is still free.

I’m losing engine / transmission points only. Exactly the same situation as putting a v8 or Scooby engine in it.

That's a neat and tidy solution. Clever.

912uk · Post by **912uk** » Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:43 pm

This is an area I have been involved in, in recent years.
I saw the movement towards electric vehicles out side of the main stream. It makes for an interesting proposition for a classic car. Less computer gadgets to over come. There is talk of battery packs and where to fit them.. if you make up your cells then you can shape them to suit the car and the area's your hiding them.. Also weight distribution is fun and games to make the car as balanced as possible..

All interesting stuff and I've been driving round electric for ages.

My view is slightly wide of the norm.. I think in 10 years time ( less if I am honest ) having a 1 person small electric car to get about and then a family car is very much going to be the norm.. China sold more small electric cars than ICE in the last 2 years and the sales of the small electric city cars has ROCKETED to levels that will only spill out across the world as this market gets more media attention..

think about it.. most local journey's are 1 person in the car less than 10 miles and not exceeding 30mph..

DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker