DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

165’s do make the car feel more alive and nimble.
Lots of fun on the back roads keeping momentum through the corners. Had a laugh keeping up with 911’s in Portland last year on the Jurassic tour 4 wheel drifts abound

These are actually really making me question wether I should sell my originals on and get some Group 4 Torq’s in 5” and then run the 165 Pirelli CN36’s I have driven one and I get fully where you guys are coming from the 165 tyre definitely makes it feel more nimble. I haven’t driven one on the 185/70’s though, and honestly thought the difference is so minimal that the feel would be the same. Anyone running the 185/70 r15 Pirelli’s want to let me borrow their car for a test drive? Hahahahaha

I had Vredestein Sprint Classics on my old 71 911E and really liked them. Good feel and overall performance although quite a lot of flex when pushed hard. For the money, I thought they were great.

I've just switched to CN36s on my 73 911 and they are better than my previous modern road tyre. Hard to argue with the performance, just a bit pricey. They are a bit more sporting than the Contis I had on their before but if you really want a sporting feel I would suggest the Avons.

SeanP wrote:165’s do make the car feel more alive and nimble.
Lots of fun on the back roads keeping momentum through the corners. Had a laugh keeping up with 911’s in Portland last year on the Jurassic tour 4 wheel drifts abound

I was gutted to miss the Jurassic Tour last year.

Decision made, I’ve put my Torq’s up for sale, I’m going for a narrower wheel and have ordered 165 r15 Pirelli CN36’s

Spit Nolan wrote:Decision made, I’ve put my Torq’s up for sale, I’m going for a narrower wheel and have ordered 165 r15 Pirelli CN36’s

You have made a wise choice
I am currently running Vredstein sprint classics and have no complaints
Enjoy

912Flyer wrote:
Picture of mine with current CN36'S on.




Mike

Your car wheel/tyre combo is looking great, Mike, and it will be a lot of fun with 165's and a Polo engine, that's for sure, although I think you're right to recognise that ultimately you'll benefit from the larger tyre contact patch of a 185 section width with this engine configuration.

In reference to your concerns about suspension and steering loads, these will be largely governed by 1) the change in wheel offset and the way this can impart differing bending loads into the hub, specifically the wheel bearing (therefore always good to minimise wheel offset if looking for long bearing life) and also the effect the offset has on steering geometry, 2) the unsprung mass (i.e. choice of heavier wheels and tyres creating higher loads into the system, for steering and pure vertical control), 3) the spring and damper specification (i.e. the main components whose job it is to manage those loads), and not forgetting 4) how much lateral load can be put through the system (engineer speak for 'how well it can change direction/go round bends')

These areas are affected to a greater or lesser degree as soon as a different wheel or tyre combination is selected, and all have a part to play in managing not only the driving, ride control and handling experience but also the long-term durability of the car. To do a comprehensive tyre tuning exercise it is wise to take all of this into account to get the most out of any given wheel/tyre combination, but appreciate there's also a lot to be learned from the instant changes apparent from a straightforward wheel/tyre swap, all other things being equal. For many, these aren't cars that we do 15,000m a year in anymore so long-term (50,000m+) durability isn't always the main objective, and getting the car to be well controlled, quick and engaging on a variety of road surfaces from motorways to twisty B-roads tends to be the priority.

I like the fact that you're thinking about it though, and indeed, when considering changes on later cars such as 993's and even moreso on the 996/997 generation cars, there are different considerations.

Looking forward to getting the car set-up for you once that engine is in.

PS, let me know if you need any help with the 993 also. I have had a few ex-CG 993 customers recently come in for rear kinematic toe adjustment and damper revisions, with very good results.

The rears are yours Mike the front are the ones the PO had done at Canford. If you look carefully you can see they are not painted correctly as yours are however I think that was the PO's request to match the deep 6's. I think the brake dust hides the fact the edges are silver on the inset not painted black.

Didn't realise you did moderns but CG are only 20 mins from me and came highly recommended from a number of 993 owners and a friend who races cars as well as uses a Porsche as a daily. They were great to chat to and confirmed what I thought on a number of points.

Tried the Vredestiiens and they were great perhaps its snake oil but the CN36's seemed more surefooted with greater feedback but it was minimal. Got caught in a swamp of rain on Thursday and they performed faultlessly with no loss grip and no aquaplaning through standing water and I wasn't hanging about. Not tried the Vredestains in rain but I'm sure they would perform similarly.

Mike

Good stuff. The CN36 is a good tyre in this application for sure.

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Never been excited by the arrival of some tyres before haha!

MikeyC wrote:

912Flyer wrote:
Picture of mine with current CN36'S on.




Mike

Your car wheel/tyre combo is looking great, Mike, and it will be a lot of fun with 165's and a Polo engine, that's for sure, although I think you're right to recognise that ultimately you'll benefit from the larger tyre contact patch of a 185 section width with this engine configuration.

In reference to your concerns about suspension and steering loads, these will be largely governed by 1) the change in wheel offset and the way this can impart differing bending loads into the hub, specifically the wheel bearing (therefore always good to minimise wheel offset if looking for long bearing life) and also the effect the offset has on steering geometry, 2) the unsprung mass (i.e. choice of heavier wheels and tyres creating higher loads into the system, for steering and pure vertical control), 3) the spring and damper specification (i.e. the main components whose job it is to manage those loads), and not forgetting 4) how much lateral load can be put through the system (engineer speak for 'how well it can change direction/go round bends')

These areas are affected to a greater or lesser degree as soon as a different wheel or tyre combination is selected, and all have a part to play in managing not only the driving, ride control and handling experience but also the long-term durability of the car. To do a comprehensive tyre tuning exercise it is wise to take all of this into account to get the most out of any given wheel/tyre combination, but appreciate there's also a lot to be learned from the instant changes apparent from a straightforward wheel/tyre swap, all other things being equal. For many, these aren't cars that we do 15,000m a year in anymore so long-term (50,000m+) durability isn't always the main objective, and getting the car to be well controlled, quick and engaging on a variety of road surfaces from motorways to twisty B-roads tends to be the priority.

I like the fact that you're thinking about it though, and indeed, when considering changes on later cars such as 993's and even moreso on the 996/997 generation cars, there are different considerations.

Looking forward to getting the car set-up for you once that engine is in.

PS, let me know if you need any help with the 993 also. I have had a few ex-CG 993 customers recently come in for rear kinematic toe adjustment and damper revisions, with very good results.

Is there another 912 in the country with a polo engine? Enough torque to surprise even a very sorted 911

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There was someone else who was potentially building a Polo 912 but I have not heard anything from him. Mine isn't in yet but hopefully will be by this winter. Dean reckons its pretty much on a par with a 3.2 Carrera although this sits further inboard by 8 inches and weighs 120kg lighter. I will post upas soon as work commences.

Mike

Thinner is more fun

I would fit the 165R15 CN36

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirell ... -cn36.html

the CN36 range has expanded a bit. we have the 165R15 for you guys

the 185/70VR15 CN36 for Post 68 911

the 215/60R15 for the rear of RS and Carrera and into the SC

We now have 13" and 14" CN36 for other makes of car.

But we now also have a 175/70VR15 CN36 for the later Beetle, which i think will also be great on a 914.

However on a 912 i would fit 165VR15 CN36 it will be the most fun.

Dougal Cawley wrote:Thinner is more fun

I would fit the 165R15 CN36

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirell ... -cn36.html

the CN36 range has expanded a bit. we have the 165R15 for you guys

the 185/70VR15 CN36 for Post 68 911

the 215/60R15 for the rear of RS and Carrera and into the SC

We now have 13" and 14" CN36 for other makes of car.

But we now also have a 175/70VR15 CN36 for the later Beetle, which i think will also be great on a 914.

However on a 912 i would fit 165VR15 CN36 it will be the most fun.

Thank you, I got a set of 165 CN36’s from yourselves

Here is a photograph of a well respected motoring Journalist (well a motoring journalist anyway) Picking up a set of the CN36 for a 356 from Chez Longstone.