How not to buy a 993 - or?
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How not to buy a 993 - or?
I wasn’t sure whether this thread should go in to the Restoration section or here
I’m guilty of buying a 993 against all the good advice I have received on what I should look for and what I shouldn’t do. I chose the latter!
Although my passion is in the 60's models particularly the 912 I have loved 993’s ever since Nick Faure took me round a damp Castle Combe in a Blue 993 RS Clubsport at full chat. It was in 1998-99 at a Stroke association day, that sadly they no longer run.
The golden rule I am told by those more knowledgeable than I, is that with a Porsche 993 you should buy the best you can afford with full supporting history. My purchase didn’t quite work out that way and I would love to tell you that my theory for going the opposite way was well thought out when I bought this car - but that would be a lie.
I had a criteria of what I basically wanted in a 993 and my budget was around £35-40k. The list was and its my personal taste :-
1. Not metallic I wanted a Solid Colour of the Porsche range preferably a bright colour (love the Riviera Blue and Mexico Blue 993’s on this forum)
2. Had to be Manual
3. Only C2 (can't afford an S) and frankly prefer the narrow body
4. Black interior
First mistake I was bored in lockdown and I bid on and won unseen at an auction a 1994 Guards Red 993 C2 Manual with considerable miles on the clock with the most tatty interior I have ever seen. Oh errrm! it’s also a non-runner - that’s the bit I didn’t mention to my wife! The car looks to have had a few upgrades and I think the previous owner loved the car as he put some decent miles on the clock. It's also been to Le Mans 24 a few times from the sticker in the back window and various french filling station receipts.
I contacted Steve Winter at JAZ who is working on another project for me on my 67, 912 and I understand that JAZ know their onions with 993's and had Steve not been doing another project for me I would have tried Christian Unger whom I have heard great things about. Steve had originally tried in vain to put me off the car with it being a none runner, but it arrived at his workshop.
Another fact I took in to consideration was Ferrymans restoration post and his experience with the engine letting go and I considered that any car that is now 25 years old with over 150,000 miles on could possibly need a re-build in the near future. I’m not saying that is a hard and fast rule and I don’t have the experience to make that sort of statement but it was a consideration to me. Some 993’s I see have doubled that mileage with no problems but it was a possibility in my mind.
So even if I spent the top of my budget on a suitable car I could end up with an engine rebuild and in my budget all the cars seemed to be over or just under 100,000 miles.
This car popped up on one of the regional auction houses and mistake or not I paid around half of my budget on it and therefore I can afford a full engine rebuild if needed and the car is a manual C2S in a solid colour which is exactly what I wanted. The interior will need completely renewing and I have already purchased most of the parts to change from Classic Grey to Black. I will after running over the entire car as it has been sat in a lock up for 3 years renew all of the perishables in the suspension and braking system and possibly upgrade these as the car will be a daily driver with 80% road and 20% track use, so a visit to Centre Gravity is on the cards.
I get the answer tomorrow on whether it starts and runs and if it can then pass an MOT....!! it hasn't run since 2017 but fortunately it was kept garaged so fingers crossed. I haven’t even seen it yet so hoping I can pick it up soon running...!!
A photo - amazing the difference in colour on the shots outside and inside presumably from the camera exposure. I will do a full project report once I get hold of the car which should be this week. First off in my hands will be the interior as JAZ will be changing all of the fluids and giving it a full service and hopefully get the car running
I’m guilty of buying a 993 against all the good advice I have received on what I should look for and what I shouldn’t do. I chose the latter!
Although my passion is in the 60's models particularly the 912 I have loved 993’s ever since Nick Faure took me round a damp Castle Combe in a Blue 993 RS Clubsport at full chat. It was in 1998-99 at a Stroke association day, that sadly they no longer run.
The golden rule I am told by those more knowledgeable than I, is that with a Porsche 993 you should buy the best you can afford with full supporting history. My purchase didn’t quite work out that way and I would love to tell you that my theory for going the opposite way was well thought out when I bought this car - but that would be a lie.
I had a criteria of what I basically wanted in a 993 and my budget was around £35-40k. The list was and its my personal taste :-
1. Not metallic I wanted a Solid Colour of the Porsche range preferably a bright colour (love the Riviera Blue and Mexico Blue 993’s on this forum)
2. Had to be Manual
3. Only C2 (can't afford an S) and frankly prefer the narrow body
4. Black interior
First mistake I was bored in lockdown and I bid on and won unseen at an auction a 1994 Guards Red 993 C2 Manual with considerable miles on the clock with the most tatty interior I have ever seen. Oh errrm! it’s also a non-runner - that’s the bit I didn’t mention to my wife! The car looks to have had a few upgrades and I think the previous owner loved the car as he put some decent miles on the clock. It's also been to Le Mans 24 a few times from the sticker in the back window and various french filling station receipts.
I contacted Steve Winter at JAZ who is working on another project for me on my 67, 912 and I understand that JAZ know their onions with 993's and had Steve not been doing another project for me I would have tried Christian Unger whom I have heard great things about. Steve had originally tried in vain to put me off the car with it being a none runner, but it arrived at his workshop.
Another fact I took in to consideration was Ferrymans restoration post and his experience with the engine letting go and I considered that any car that is now 25 years old with over 150,000 miles on could possibly need a re-build in the near future. I’m not saying that is a hard and fast rule and I don’t have the experience to make that sort of statement but it was a consideration to me. Some 993’s I see have doubled that mileage with no problems but it was a possibility in my mind.
So even if I spent the top of my budget on a suitable car I could end up with an engine rebuild and in my budget all the cars seemed to be over or just under 100,000 miles.
This car popped up on one of the regional auction houses and mistake or not I paid around half of my budget on it and therefore I can afford a full engine rebuild if needed and the car is a manual C2S in a solid colour which is exactly what I wanted. The interior will need completely renewing and I have already purchased most of the parts to change from Classic Grey to Black. I will after running over the entire car as it has been sat in a lock up for 3 years renew all of the perishables in the suspension and braking system and possibly upgrade these as the car will be a daily driver with 80% road and 20% track use, so a visit to Centre Gravity is on the cards.
I get the answer tomorrow on whether it starts and runs and if it can then pass an MOT....!! it hasn't run since 2017 but fortunately it was kept garaged so fingers crossed. I haven’t even seen it yet so hoping I can pick it up soon running...!!
A photo - amazing the difference in colour on the shots outside and inside presumably from the camera exposure. I will do a full project report once I get hold of the car which should be this week. First off in my hands will be the interior as JAZ will be changing all of the fluids and giving it a full service and hopefully get the car running
1967 912
1994 993
2006 987 S
Mini Cooper S
Cooper MK9
Lotus Elan Sprint
Alfa Romeo GTA-R
1994 993
2006 987 S
Mini Cooper S
Cooper MK9
Lotus Elan Sprint
Alfa Romeo GTA-R
Re: How not to buy a 993 - or?
nice car .. not many in red .. will make a great basis for any mods . What year is it ?
James
1973 911 2.4S
1993 964 C2
2010 987 Spyder
1973 MGB Roadster
Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast
1973 911 2.4S
1993 964 C2
2010 987 Spyder
1973 MGB Roadster
Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast
Re: How not to buy a 993 - or?
Thanks it's an early 94
Mike
Mike
1967 912
1994 993
2006 987 S
Mini Cooper S
Cooper MK9
Lotus Elan Sprint
Alfa Romeo GTA-R
1994 993
2006 987 S
Mini Cooper S
Cooper MK9
Lotus Elan Sprint
Alfa Romeo GTA-R
- Bootsy
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Re: How not to buy a 993 - or?
Cool, sometimes we have to take a risk or two - hope it pays off for you. They look cool in red
1972 911T | 1994 993 Carrera | 1999 986 Boxster | 1990 T25 Camper
Vintage Heuer, Omega, Zenith and other vintage watches - http://www.heuerheritage.co.uk
Vintage Heuer, Omega, Zenith and other vintage watches - http://www.heuerheritage.co.uk
Re: How not to buy a 993 - or?
Nice car, and as James already said, you don't see many in that colour. BTW I bet it will start and go, 911 engines are amazing!
Good luck with it and try driving it for a while before pulling it apart
Good luck with it and try driving it for a while before pulling it apart
Brendan
1969 911T
2007 2.7 Boxster
Pray, hope and don't worry - Padre Pio
1969 911T
2007 2.7 Boxster
Pray, hope and don't worry - Padre Pio
Re: How not to buy a 993 - or?
Well done. May work out ok.
If you paid half of your budget you should be ok, as the box alone is nearly worth £10k so the sum of the parts make it worth the punt.
Good luck
If you paid half of your budget you should be ok, as the box alone is nearly worth £10k so the sum of the parts make it worth the punt.
Good luck
'72 911E Coupe RHD
'72 911S Coupe RHD
'72 911S Coupe RHD
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Re: How not to buy a 993 - or?
Fingers crossed for you!
cheers, Mike.
previously..
1994 968 Club Sport Riviera Blue
1994 993 C2 Carrera Riviera Blue
1972 911S to Martini RSR Prototype Spec
1973 911E to RS Lightweight Specification
1981 924 Carrera GT ex Mexborough car
3.2 Carrera Sport x2
previously..
1994 968 Club Sport Riviera Blue
1994 993 C2 Carrera Riviera Blue
1972 911S to Martini RSR Prototype Spec
1973 911E to RS Lightweight Specification
1981 924 Carrera GT ex Mexborough car
3.2 Carrera Sport x2
Re: How not to buy a 993 - or?
Thanks everyone
1967 912
1994 993
2006 987 S
Mini Cooper S
Cooper MK9
Lotus Elan Sprint
Alfa Romeo GTA-R
1994 993
2006 987 S
Mini Cooper S
Cooper MK9
Lotus Elan Sprint
Alfa Romeo GTA-R
Re: How not to buy a 993 - or?
Looks pretty decent in the pics so hopefully will be a great car once all done!
The force is strong in this one ......
Re: How not to buy a 993 - or?
Well good news JAZ got it started - it was all down to a faulty immobiliser panel which is shot
Oh and it passed it's MOT with nothing more than an advisory that the handbrake requires adjustment
Bad news is on closer investigation the handbrake cable is seized on one side and the shoes have seen their best. I was going to do this myself but having read what a PIA the cable can be I asked JAZ to do it and patting myself on the back for not doing it, it was no surprise that the cable is seized in the aluminium tube. I am having them renew both cables and new shoes whilst they are at it.
Few more photos of the car - the interior is worse than the photos portray and will need doing to give the old girl some dignity back. The car has been used and abused and whilst I do not intend to stop doing the same a little time and money is worth the effort to bring her back to a good functional car. She's a scruffy old thing at the moment but a good clean up and attention to detail will sort things out.
There are a coupe of blisters which initially I worried about but these are isolated to the sills where water seems to have drained on the sill and water has worked its way under the stone chip. The car has had paint in various places and the idea is to use the car so a full restore and repaint is not on the cards. Good news is that apart from a tiny bubble near the front screen everywhere else looks to be completely sound.
Plans are:-
1) Use the car
2) Wash and clean up with attention to rubber seals which have growth on them from sitting stationary
2) Replace most of the tired interior
3) New stereo thats in keeping with the car some fluro Alpine number is in it at the moment and the speakers are hanging out the door cards
4) Upgrade/clean the headlights as they look pretty dull and the glass looks pitted
5) Wheels and tyres - The wheels I thought were hollow spokes but i'm told that whilst 993 items they are solid. The car has sat on the current tyres for 3 years and these may have been flat and whilst you cannot see any damage it's not something you want on your mind pushing out of a corner at speed!! The car is a 94 model and according to the technical bulletin from Porsche, 94 cars should not run 18"s although I am reliably informed they can do with the strengthening brace in place ebven though the bulletin says this is for cars 1995 on before a certain chassis number. I like the look of the Otto Fuchs wheels Mike had on the Riviera Blue car but may go 17" as the car will be 90% road as a daily driver and given the state of the UK roads the 17" s may prove to be a better more comfortable all round wheel? - interested on thoughts on this one? but I will wait to change until I drive the car.
6) Engine rebuild - This will be some way off hopefully but at 180k it will need at least a good inspection in the near future
Oh and it passed it's MOT with nothing more than an advisory that the handbrake requires adjustment
Bad news is on closer investigation the handbrake cable is seized on one side and the shoes have seen their best. I was going to do this myself but having read what a PIA the cable can be I asked JAZ to do it and patting myself on the back for not doing it, it was no surprise that the cable is seized in the aluminium tube. I am having them renew both cables and new shoes whilst they are at it.
Few more photos of the car - the interior is worse than the photos portray and will need doing to give the old girl some dignity back. The car has been used and abused and whilst I do not intend to stop doing the same a little time and money is worth the effort to bring her back to a good functional car. She's a scruffy old thing at the moment but a good clean up and attention to detail will sort things out.
There are a coupe of blisters which initially I worried about but these are isolated to the sills where water seems to have drained on the sill and water has worked its way under the stone chip. The car has had paint in various places and the idea is to use the car so a full restore and repaint is not on the cards. Good news is that apart from a tiny bubble near the front screen everywhere else looks to be completely sound.
Plans are:-
1) Use the car
2) Wash and clean up with attention to rubber seals which have growth on them from sitting stationary
2) Replace most of the tired interior
3) New stereo thats in keeping with the car some fluro Alpine number is in it at the moment and the speakers are hanging out the door cards
4) Upgrade/clean the headlights as they look pretty dull and the glass looks pitted
5) Wheels and tyres - The wheels I thought were hollow spokes but i'm told that whilst 993 items they are solid. The car has sat on the current tyres for 3 years and these may have been flat and whilst you cannot see any damage it's not something you want on your mind pushing out of a corner at speed!! The car is a 94 model and according to the technical bulletin from Porsche, 94 cars should not run 18"s although I am reliably informed they can do with the strengthening brace in place ebven though the bulletin says this is for cars 1995 on before a certain chassis number. I like the look of the Otto Fuchs wheels Mike had on the Riviera Blue car but may go 17" as the car will be 90% road as a daily driver and given the state of the UK roads the 17" s may prove to be a better more comfortable all round wheel? - interested on thoughts on this one? but I will wait to change until I drive the car.
6) Engine rebuild - This will be some way off hopefully but at 180k it will need at least a good inspection in the near future
1967 912
1994 993
2006 987 S
Mini Cooper S
Cooper MK9
Lotus Elan Sprint
Alfa Romeo GTA-R
1994 993
2006 987 S
Mini Cooper S
Cooper MK9
Lotus Elan Sprint
Alfa Romeo GTA-R
-
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Re: How not to buy a 993 - or?
Looks like a great buy, bit of TLC and it will be the perfect car you actually use without worrying too much!
Re: How not to buy a 993 - or?
Gary thats what I wanted and not worrying where I park or if its rainingGary71 wrote:Looks like a great buy, bit of TLC and it will be the perfect car you actually use without worrying too much!
1967 912
1994 993
2006 987 S
Mini Cooper S
Cooper MK9
Lotus Elan Sprint
Alfa Romeo GTA-R
1994 993
2006 987 S
Mini Cooper S
Cooper MK9
Lotus Elan Sprint
Alfa Romeo GTA-R
-
- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
- Posts: 8766
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Re: How not to buy a 993 - or?
Great stuff - taking risks creates memories and gives you a journey to go on.
Can’t wait to hear how you get on
Can’t wait to hear how you get on
The simple things you see are all complicated
I look pretty young but I'm just backdated yeah
I look pretty young but I'm just backdated yeah