Quatrelle: More French madness
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Quatrelle: More French madness
I couldn't let Graham get away with having all the French fun, so today I pulled the trigger on a new toy.
Ever since having a passenger ride in a brand new Renault 4 when I was about 15, I've had a soft spot for them. To me, they're more of a real car than a 2CV but share a similar ideology. Fortunately Sarah, my wife, likes them, too... Eventually, the inevitable happened and I started to look on the usual French websites – leboncoin and lesanciennes – to see what was about, and found a couple of likely-looking cars not far from friends in France. I did see a RHD one for sale in the UK, but a quick check of its MOT history showed that it had staggered from test to test with repeated failures for corrosion – the R4's main enemy. All that did was make me more determined to find a decent one at a decent price, LHD being of no concern.
I found one about an hour from Toulouse and asked my friend Fabien Bécasse to enquire about it. Fabien is a member of the R Gruppe, having lived out in SoCal for many years before returning to his home country last year where he continues to run his successful import/export business (mainly Porsches and old VWs). This first one had been owned by a convent up until 2011 and then repainted/refurbished by a garagiste before being purchased by the current owner in 2012. After using it for his wedding, it's sat largely unused since. However, after agreeing a price, we discovered that he was contacting other people and offering them the car, which put me right off. A close-up photo of one rear suspension pickup point also suggested some creative use of underseal, despite a current CT (French MOT), which is pretty strict these days.
Another car near Bordeaux looked great and was freshly-restored to a pretty good standard. The price reflected this, too. I had another friend look at it and he sent me a couple of dozen photos and the words 'It looks perfect'. OK, but there was another car not far from Toulouse, which Fabien went to see today. It's a 946cc Savanne, unrestored (original paint save for the bonnet) but zero rust, 66,000 miles from new, a log of every bit of service work that had been carried out throughout its life and a great driver. Negociated a good price and paid a deposit. Well, Fabien did. I've seen loads of photos and am relying on Fabien's good judgement – I've seen the other cars he's bought over the years and he knows what he's looking at.
So, the plan will be to first of all give the car to his local garagiste to go though it and do whatever is necessary and then, when it's ready, and work permits, fly over to Toulouse, drive the car back to Roscoff (only a nine hour drive) and take the ferry to Plymouth. Simple!
Ever since having a passenger ride in a brand new Renault 4 when I was about 15, I've had a soft spot for them. To me, they're more of a real car than a 2CV but share a similar ideology. Fortunately Sarah, my wife, likes them, too... Eventually, the inevitable happened and I started to look on the usual French websites – leboncoin and lesanciennes – to see what was about, and found a couple of likely-looking cars not far from friends in France. I did see a RHD one for sale in the UK, but a quick check of its MOT history showed that it had staggered from test to test with repeated failures for corrosion – the R4's main enemy. All that did was make me more determined to find a decent one at a decent price, LHD being of no concern.
I found one about an hour from Toulouse and asked my friend Fabien Bécasse to enquire about it. Fabien is a member of the R Gruppe, having lived out in SoCal for many years before returning to his home country last year where he continues to run his successful import/export business (mainly Porsches and old VWs). This first one had been owned by a convent up until 2011 and then repainted/refurbished by a garagiste before being purchased by the current owner in 2012. After using it for his wedding, it's sat largely unused since. However, after agreeing a price, we discovered that he was contacting other people and offering them the car, which put me right off. A close-up photo of one rear suspension pickup point also suggested some creative use of underseal, despite a current CT (French MOT), which is pretty strict these days.
Another car near Bordeaux looked great and was freshly-restored to a pretty good standard. The price reflected this, too. I had another friend look at it and he sent me a couple of dozen photos and the words 'It looks perfect'. OK, but there was another car not far from Toulouse, which Fabien went to see today. It's a 946cc Savanne, unrestored (original paint save for the bonnet) but zero rust, 66,000 miles from new, a log of every bit of service work that had been carried out throughout its life and a great driver. Negociated a good price and paid a deposit. Well, Fabien did. I've seen loads of photos and am relying on Fabien's good judgement – I've seen the other cars he's bought over the years and he knows what he's looking at.
So, the plan will be to first of all give the car to his local garagiste to go though it and do whatever is necessary and then, when it's ready, and work permits, fly over to Toulouse, drive the car back to Roscoff (only a nine hour drive) and take the ferry to Plymouth. Simple!
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Re: Quatrelle: More French madness
Congratulations - great cars !!
I owned 2 x 'Fourgonnettes' (R4 vans) at separate times in the late '70's & then a bright yellow '76 TL in the early'80's - each one being used as a 'daily' in London.
As I mentioned when you originally posted in the 'non-Porsche picture of the day' thread, I took one R4 van down through France, around the Pyrenees, then over to the Mediterranean coast & back up to London - all without any problems ... great fun.
.
I owned 2 x 'Fourgonnettes' (R4 vans) at separate times in the late '70's & then a bright yellow '76 TL in the early'80's - each one being used as a 'daily' in London.
As I mentioned when you originally posted in the 'non-Porsche picture of the day' thread, I took one R4 van down through France, around the Pyrenees, then over to the Mediterranean coast & back up to London - all without any problems ... great fun.
.
Last edited by Lightweight_911 on Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andy
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights;
- subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights;
- subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”
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Re: Quatrelle: More French madness
My French Follies would fit a treat in the back...
When I saw your other thread I did think to myself why doesn't he go and get it and drive back the long way and give us a treat of a 'Road Trip with my new French Mistress'...
Car looks a treat. Any old car without rust is a pleasure, you will get a great experience with this one I think.
Saw a perfect/original Gordini version a few years back in mid France at an antique 'fair' alongside a river, so French, love it.
These R4s are really few and far between in the UK
When I saw your other thread I did think to myself why doesn't he go and get it and drive back the long way and give us a treat of a 'Road Trip with my new French Mistress'...
Car looks a treat. Any old car without rust is a pleasure, you will get a great experience with this one I think.
Saw a perfect/original Gordini version a few years back in mid France at an antique 'fair' alongside a river, so French, love it.
These R4s are really few and far between in the UK
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Re: Quatrelle: More French madness
Very nice Keith. I’ve always hankered after a van with the opening rear roof panel ever since my family holidays in France
James
1973 911 2.4S
1993 964 C2
2010 987 Spyder
1973 MGB Roadster
Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast
1973 911 2.4S
1993 964 C2
2010 987 Spyder
1973 MGB Roadster
Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast
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Re: Quatrelle: More French madness
Well done Keith. J’suis super jaloux!
I had one in the early 90s when I was living in Provence, and miss that car and the memories in it dearly.
When I finished with it, I gave it to a young student who planned to do some work and run it in this:
http://www.4ltrophy.com/engagement-eco-citoyens/
I nearly pulled the trigger on a rally raid prepped 4L last year..: but then we broke the gearbox on the 914, and I stopped shopping.
Subscribed to this thread. Looking fwd to updates
I had one in the early 90s when I was living in Provence, and miss that car and the memories in it dearly.
When I finished with it, I gave it to a young student who planned to do some work and run it in this:
http://www.4ltrophy.com/engagement-eco-citoyens/
I nearly pulled the trigger on a rally raid prepped 4L last year..: but then we broke the gearbox on the 914, and I stopped shopping.
Subscribed to this thread. Looking fwd to updates
James
'87 R4 GTL Clan
'74 914/6 3.0 Texas GT
'73 911 2.7 RS Replica LHD
'72 911 2.4 E RHD (Sold)
'87 R4 GTL Clan
'74 914/6 3.0 Texas GT
'73 911 2.7 RS Replica LHD
'72 911 2.4 E RHD (Sold)
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Re: Quatrelle: More French madness
The 'giraffe' rear hatch was such a clever idea - I'm amazed it was never copied by another manufacturer ...hot66 wrote:Very nice Keith. I’ve always hankered after a van with the opening rear roof panel ever since my family holidays in France
.
Andy
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights;
- subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights;
- subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”
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Re: Quatrelle: More French madness
Had to Google that.Lightweight_911 wrote:The 'giraffe' rear hatch was such a clever idea - I'm amazed it was never copied by another manufacturer ...hot66 wrote:Very nice Keith. I’ve always hankered after a van with the opening rear roof panel ever since my family holidays in France
.
What's it for? Extra-long baguettes?
Excellent car Keith, and the collection trip should be a nice little adventure.
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Re: Quatrelle: More French madness
.
Carrying ladders, etc ...
Carrying ladders, etc ...
Andy
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights;
- subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights;
- subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”
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Re: Quatrelle: More French madness
OK, so here is the photo which decided me against the car I was originally following up. The history was great but one photo tells a great deal about a car.
Supposedly rust free and with a current CT, this didn't look right to me – it's the biggest problem area on R4s, as rust here eats upwards through the chassis and eventually
manifests itself as rust in the rear corner of the passenger door jamb. A little like kidney bowls on 911s, by the time the rust is obvious, the damage has been done.
On an R4, it renders the car almost worthless except as a project taken on as a hobby.
Note the thick underseal and the ominous gap across the bottom of the suspension pick-up point. It's been plated over but not well.
Add this to the guy's less than ethical sales technique and it was time to move on.
I have friends of long standing who live near the Arcachon Basin south of Bordeaux, so when a restored R4 came up for sale nearby, I asked if they could take a look.
It was right at the very top of my budget – well, over it, in fact – at €6750, but I figured there would be some wriggle room and it was worth a look.
Pascal told me that it 'looked' perfect and had had a fortune spent on parts. The owner was an amateur car restorer with a Mustang in his garage. Pascal sent me two dozen photos
while he was looking at the Quatrelle (French slang for the R4 - Quatre 'L', or '4L') and it did indeed look amazing. Underneath there was evidence of a fortune being spent on new everything
but I felt uneasy about the paintwork. In all the photos it looked very 'orange peeley' and the car was a bit of a mish-mash of components. It had incorrect chrome bumpers (no biggy, as
they look better with them fitted), a much earlier interior (vinyl instead of cloth, and with badly patched headrests) and late 'GTL' plastic panels along the bottoms of the doors.
Now those plastic panels are ugly with a capital 'U', and the only reason why anyone would fit them would be to disguise dubious bodywork below. Couple that with some views which suggested
the panels weren't as good as they might be under that shiny paint (inside view of tailgate showed dents in the outer skin, while the outside showed smooth paint, for example), and I started to
become less enthusiastic. He wouldn't budge much on price, either, dropping to €6500 at best.
Supposedly rust free and with a current CT, this didn't look right to me – it's the biggest problem area on R4s, as rust here eats upwards through the chassis and eventually
manifests itself as rust in the rear corner of the passenger door jamb. A little like kidney bowls on 911s, by the time the rust is obvious, the damage has been done.
On an R4, it renders the car almost worthless except as a project taken on as a hobby.
Note the thick underseal and the ominous gap across the bottom of the suspension pick-up point. It's been plated over but not well.
Add this to the guy's less than ethical sales technique and it was time to move on.
I have friends of long standing who live near the Arcachon Basin south of Bordeaux, so when a restored R4 came up for sale nearby, I asked if they could take a look.
It was right at the very top of my budget – well, over it, in fact – at €6750, but I figured there would be some wriggle room and it was worth a look.
Pascal told me that it 'looked' perfect and had had a fortune spent on parts. The owner was an amateur car restorer with a Mustang in his garage. Pascal sent me two dozen photos
while he was looking at the Quatrelle (French slang for the R4 - Quatre 'L', or '4L') and it did indeed look amazing. Underneath there was evidence of a fortune being spent on new everything
but I felt uneasy about the paintwork. In all the photos it looked very 'orange peeley' and the car was a bit of a mish-mash of components. It had incorrect chrome bumpers (no biggy, as
they look better with them fitted), a much earlier interior (vinyl instead of cloth, and with badly patched headrests) and late 'GTL' plastic panels along the bottoms of the doors.
Now those plastic panels are ugly with a capital 'U', and the only reason why anyone would fit them would be to disguise dubious bodywork below. Couple that with some views which suggested
the panels weren't as good as they might be under that shiny paint (inside view of tailgate showed dents in the outer skin, while the outside showed smooth paint, for example), and I started to
become less enthusiastic. He wouldn't budge much on price, either, dropping to €6500 at best.
Re: Quatrelle: More French madness
Be patient ....... every dog has his day !
If I was looking for one of these , I would be off to Portugal - not so much cause I speak the language , but more because there are lots more of them there, than in France , and they will be cheaper too (intelligent guess based on cost of living and everything else in Portugal !!). Must have seen 20 + of them on the road there last year , in approx a week ............ 90+% of them were white.
anyways .......................
If I was looking for one of these , I would be off to Portugal - not so much cause I speak the language , but more because there are lots more of them there, than in France , and they will be cheaper too (intelligent guess based on cost of living and everything else in Portugal !!). Must have seen 20 + of them on the road there last year , in approx a week ............ 90+% of them were white.
anyways .......................
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Rally 911 (1966) build parked for a while
Rally 928 (work started again - inc serious weight loss programe !)
.... and now another VW Up GTI owner.
GL 1800 Tour DCT, for pleasure / Fantic 240 Professional - play
Rally 911 (1966) build parked for a while
Rally 928 (work started again - inc serious weight loss programe !)
.... and now another VW Up GTI owner.
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Re: Quatrelle: More French madness
The deal is already done – the car at the top of this post is the one I'm buying. The reference to the rusty suspension covered with underseal is the first car I'd thought about. 'My' car was checked out for me by my friend Fabien Becasse, best known in Porsche circles for his orange hot rod, and also a fellow member of the legendary DKP (Der Kleiner Panzers) VW club. I've known Fabs for over 25 years, since he used to own one of the premier paint and resto shops near Bordeaux (TFabs). Since then, he's lived in the USA and run a successful import/export car business specialising in classic VWs and Porsches. He's now back home in France, to escape the madness that is Trump's America. I'm in good trustworthy hands, an important consideration when buying a car remotely. Here's Fab's 911:Cortina wrote:Be patient ....... every dog has his day !
If I was looking for one of these , I would be off to Portugal - not so much cause I speak the language , but more because there are lots more of them there, than in France , and they will be cheaper too (intelligent guess based on cost of living and everything else in Portugal !!). Must have seen 20 + of them on the road there last year , in approx a week ............ 90+% of them were white.
anyways .......................
The cars I found for sale in Spain and Portugal were no longer cheap – the web has seen to that. Also, the logistics for me of having a car checked out were, well, difficult at best as I have many French friends but don't know anyone personally in Spain or Portugal. I'm sure I could have looked at 1000 cars, but sometimes you need to go with gut instinct - and helpful friends.
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Re: Quatrelle: More French madness
Collected to day - that's Fabien on the right, and (ex) owner on the left.
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Re: Quatrelle: More French madness
Now that is a cool picture
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Re: Quatrelle: More French madness
Isn't it just!
A French Portmeirion!
A French Portmeirion!
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
Boxster 987 Gen II 2.9