DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Hi Team

i am trying to make it so our web site is like a tyre data base. I have tried to work out what all the models of Porsche are. I got these from the Porsche web site.

If you spot any mistakes please let me know. If you know anything about original tyre brands or have any pictures that back stuff up that would be great.

The tyres i list are what i believe was the original tyre. and what i think is the closest tyre currently available to original. For the mian point i list the 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67, because that is the only 165R15 tyre that is being made currently. Michelin X would also have been available, but they don't make a 165R15 X currently, and the Cinturato was more a sports car tyre. Michelin make an XAS N0 which is fantastic, and Porsche homologated, but didn't come out until 1965. Pirelli also make a Cinturato CN36 which is N4 Porsche homologated as well, but that was 1968. So currently i think the Cinturato CA67 gets it.

this lot is going to go on this page, https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... e/356.html so if you see any faults on there please do give me a heads up.

Am i right in thinking that the 356 C can fit a 185/70R15 tyre without modification, but the earlier cars can't?

also do you think any of these car actually left the factory fitted with radial?

Porsche Pre A 356 Tyres

• Pre A 356 1100 = 500-16 crossply – 500/525X16 Avon Tourist
• Pre A 356 1300 = 500-16 crossply – 500/525X16 Avon Tourist
• Pre A 356 1300 Super = 500-16 crossply – 500/525X16 Avon Tourist
• Pre A 356 1500 = 500-16 crossply – 500/525X16 Avon Tourist
• Pre A 356 1500 Super = 500-16 crossply – 500/525X16 Avon Tourist
• Pre A 356 1500 Speedster = 500-16 crossply – 500/525X16 Avon Tourist
• Pre A 356 1500 Super Speedster = 500-16 crossply – 500/525X16 Avon Tourist

Porsche 356 A Tyres


• (1956-’57) 356 A 1300 = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1956-’57) 356 A 1300 Super = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1956-’59) 356 A 1600 = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1956-’58) 356 A 1600 Speedster = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1956-’59) 356 A 1600 = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1956-’59) 356 A 1600 Super = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1956-’58) 356 A 1600 Super Speedster = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1958-’59) 356 A 1600 Hardtop = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1958-’59) 356 A 1600 Super Hardtop = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1959) 356 A 1600 Convertible D = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1959) 356 A 1600 Super Convertible D = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67

Porsche 356 B Tyres

• (1960-’63) 356 B 1600 = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1960-’62) 356 B 1600 Roadster = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1960-’63) 356 B 1600 Super = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1960-’63) 356 B 1600 Super Roadster = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1960-’63) 356 B 1600 Super 90 = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1960-’62) 356 B 1600 Super 90 Roadster = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67


Porsche 356 C Tyres

• (1964-’65) 356 C 1600 = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1964-’65) 356 C 1600 SC = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1964-’65) 356 C 1600 SC = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1964-’65) 356 C 2000 Carrera 2 = 560-15 crossply – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67

Dougal,

For whats its worth this link from the ' Porsche 356 book by Brian Long states the radials were first supplied as standard by the factory for the 356 B in the sixties. The factory could supply the radial on request in the late 50's if asked.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZGP ... es&f=false

Maybe the link works?

Roy

Hi

Thanks for that. but do you think that is correct?

"Radials were actually fitted as standard from the 356 B"

I always thought they were crossply. But you could ask to have radial fitted.

do we know anything about brands? I have found something that tells me that the 356 A fitted 5.60-15 crossply (Firestone, Metzler, Continental or Dunlop GT). In that same article it says (November 1956) we were dispatched in a third Porsche - a green 1,600 Super, with twin exhaust pipes and Michelin X 155-180 tyres. We do still have this tyres https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyres/ ... lin-x.html however they now list the rim size as 15" instead of 180mm

I have also found something that in 1960 the Super 90 fitted 165-15 German Dunlop. In theory if that is a radial tyre it should be called 165 R 15. (the R standing for radial) there is some text in the article saying that these tyres "were developed in collaboration with Porsche - it is of the Michelin X breed, however with a cord "belt" instead of metal one in the carcass, has a soft sidewalls with the tread pattern continuing onto the shoulder of the tire"

So that looks like that is what Brian Long is saying, and i have got it completely topsey turvey.

so i think i have pretty much got to the bottom of the 356 A and 356B

Porsche 356 A Tyres


• (1956-’57) 356 A 1300 = 560-15 crossply (Firestone, Metzler, Continental or Dunlop GT) – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1956-’57) 356 A 1300 Super = 560-15 crossply (Firestone, Metzler, Continental or Dunlop GT) – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1956-’59) 356 A 1600 = 560-15 crossply (Firestone, Metzler, Continental or Dunlop GT) – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1956-’58) 356 A 1600 Speedster = 560-15 crossply (Firestone, Metzler, Continental or Dunlop GT) – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1956-’59) 356 A 1600 = 560-15 crossply (Firestone, Metzler, Continental or Dunlop GT) – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1956-’59) 356 A 1600 Super = 560-15 crossply (Firestone, Metzler, Continental or Dunlop GT) – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1956-’58) 356 A 1600 Super Speedster = 560-15 crossply (Firestone, Metzler, Continental or Dunlop GT) – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1958-’59) 356 A 1600 Hardtop = 560-15 crossply (Firestone, Metzler, Continental or Dunlop GT) – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1958-’59) 356 A 1600 Super Hardtop = 560-15 crossply (Firestone, Metzler, Continental or Dunlop GT) – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1959) 356 A 1600 Convertible D = 560-15 crossply (Firestone, Metzler, Continental or Dunlop GT) – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1959) 356 A 1600 Super Convertible D = 560-15 crossply (Firestone, Metzler, Continental or Dunlop GT) – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67

Porsche 356 B Tyres

• (1960-’63) 356 B 1600 = 165-15 German Dunlop Sport – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1960-’62) 356 B 1600 Roadster = 165-15 German Dunlop Sport – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1960-’63) 356 B 1600 Super = 165-15 German Dunlop Sport – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1960-’63) 356 B 1600 Super Roadster = 165-15 German Dunlop Sport – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1960-’63) 356 B 1600 Super 90 = 165-15 German Dunlop Sport – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
• (1960-’62) 356 B 1600 Super 90 Roadster = 165-15 German Dunlop Sport – 165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67

What do you think?

So a Little more clarity as to what brand the pre A fitted and the 356 C would be nice.

or if there were any changes in tyres during the production of the 356 B. the article i have was from June 1960. However that doesn't mean that they continued to fit this German Dunlop Sport 165-15 throughout the production.

Dougal, you raise interesting points there. I have looked through a few road tests reports and it was clear then, they mentioned Michelin X tyres were being used. To be absolutely honest when I bought my 356A in the late 60's it ran X tyres. It was then 10 years old but everyone I knew then ran radials on their 356 cars. In fact I never thought they ever ran cross ply !! So you see, your listing from those times is interesting. I have also seen the German Dunlop tyres mentioned again as you mentioned without an R in the spec.

It seems to me, maybe the importer in my case AFN advised the tyre choice and other items like the radio etc. DSJ with his 356 which he called an 356A in his book but was really a pre-A used small section ribbed cross ply 500x16 inch on the front, with Michelin X radial on the rear after bought a pair of later 356A wheels with the 550x 15 inch size when production changed in 1955.

I reckon Dougal a lot of people have always thought radials were 356! Thanks for your effort there !

Roy

Hi Roy

My AFN connections do go a little bit earlier than Porsche. My connections are more Archie Frazer Nash than AFN and Aldy Aldington. but i digress.

I don't know quite so much about dates of actual Porsche models, and fitment, other than what i am able to learn from t'internet and the various period fitment guides i have. However when it comes to tyre history; i could boar the s++t out of the majority of people at 20 paces.

Porsche were innovative when it comes to tyres. in the UK and America crossply tyres were still common place well into the '70s. However in Europe land they were much more forward thinking. there were very fast cars out there and good large networks of motorways were cars could go very fast for a long time without slowing down. Michelin had patented the X as the firs t radial in 1946, and by the end of the '40s they were out there and making a name for themselves initially with the Citroen Traction Avante, but still using 400mm millimetric wheels they were taken on by the likes of the Lancia Aurelia. and Borrani were making 400mm wheels so the likes of the Ferrari 250 and Aston Martin DB2/4 could take advantage of the new radial tyre technology.

Pirelli came to market with the Cinturato in 1952, but were slow in coming forward & marketing them heavily, but manufacturers like Alfa, Lancia & Maserati were using the Cinturato as the go to radial tyre for sports cars. But the Pirelli was expensiveness.

It was not at all unusual for cars as late as the early '60s running crossply tyres.

it would very much surprise me if the Pre A cars were radial. It would surprise me more if they ran Michelin X on the rear and crossply on the front. However people did all sorts of odd stuff in those days.

These are a massive bargain https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/catalo ... gory/6847/

PreA cars are definitely crossply (with tubes of course).
Porsche used many different tyres when they were new, Michelin X being a common one.
Pirelli is not a tyre make I have seen though.

With Hendriks help
Here are all the tyres that Porsche fitted to 356`s - These are based on the RHD Records

Michelin was by far the most popular.
It was not until after 1956 that they say Michelin X
At one point they seem to have standardised on these for the UK market & referred to them as English Tyres

Dunlop Race Tyres
Michelin
Veith
Continental
Conti Record
Metzler
Engelbert
Conti Super RS (Super Record ?)
Fulda
Phoenix

Whitewall tyres (Horrible) were sometimes fitted and I believe that these were usually Phoenix

The original Kardex for my UK supplied 356c states 'Mitchelin Tyres' as an optional extra.