Hello all,
For a variety of disconnected reasons, my poor old 911 didn't see the road at all last year. I fired it up about a year ago over winter, but then all the other stuff in life took over & it didn't see the light of day in 2015.
All of this must change for this year. In preparation, and aware that I'd probably left it too long already, I pulled the covers off and started it up yesterday. Bless it, it fired up pretty quickly, and settled down to a lovely steady idle! There's nothing quite as encouraging in an old vehicle as one that starts readily, I think. I'd taken the precaution of opening the engine cover, so wandered round the back to give it a blip or two and take in the lovely noise from the stainless Turbo Thomas system, but spotted a rather damp fuel line into the fuel filter instead, so switched it off toute suite.
All of this to bring me to my question. The fuel lines on my car may or may not be original, they certainly pre-date ethanol in UK fuel. Probably time for a change, I think. As far as I know, the high pressure lines on my MFI car are steel, but there must be plenty of flexi fuel hoses dotted about the car. Does anyone sell a kit of ethanol-proof fuel lines, preferably with an idiot's guide to tracking down their location?
Cheers, Jon
21st Century fuel lines
Moderators: hot66, impmad2000, Barry, Viv_Surby, Derek, Mike Usiskin
21st Century fuel lines
DDK # 0362
'72 TE - Chilled by PorscheAir!
'72 TE - Chilled by PorscheAir!
Re: 21st Century fuel lines
Main ones are at front between bottom of tank to chassis hardlines
From chassis ( nose of gearbox ) to pump
From pump to fuel filter in engine bay ( these are pre built units from Porsche )
Then from fuel filter to mfi pump
From chassis ( nose of gearbox ) to pump
From pump to fuel filter in engine bay ( these are pre built units from Porsche )
Then from fuel filter to mfi pump
James
1973 911 2.4S
1993 964 C2
2010 987 Spyder
1973 MGB Roadster
Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast
1973 911 2.4S
1993 964 C2
2010 987 Spyder
1973 MGB Roadster
Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast
Re: 21st Century fuel lines
We have been having nothing but trouble with Cohline Rubber Hose.
The Textile Braided Hose used on 911 Carburettor Fuel Lines is very, very troublesome and is good for around 15 months after which it leaks as the fuel percolates through the hose. It manages to do this even on very low mileage cars.
Cohline have assured me that their fuel line is E10 Compatible and deny completely that there is a problem.
I sent them a sample of their hose which had deteriorated catastrophically and this was examined by their Technical Department in Germany.
They concluded that there was nothing wrong with the hose, it had just been used at too high a temperature !!!
It would appear that the engine bay temperature on a 911 is unsuitable for Cohline hose as the product we used was rated at 50degC.
We have a customer who lives in France and used E85 fuel and the Cohline hose we fitted to his car lasted 4 months.
I have to say that I don't believe that temperature is the issue and it is the composition of the hose that is at fault. Cohline hose was always used and used to perform well it is clearly Ethanol compatibility that is the problem.
Our customer in France changed to another Cohline product which is a much thicker wall hose for Bio Diesel applications. This looks wrong but was better it lasted 10 months.
For the last 2 years we have changed hose annually just prior to an MOT test.
We are now using a Braided Hose from Aeroquip which is guaranteed as E85 Compatible but is £30 per metre but only tested for the last 6months.
We will not use any Cohline Rubber hose in fuel applications if we can find an alternative and I would be suspicious of even the steel braided hose.
For higher pressure hose with swaged fittings I would use a PTFE based product from Aeroquip or Goodrich.
The Textile Braided Hose used on 911 Carburettor Fuel Lines is very, very troublesome and is good for around 15 months after which it leaks as the fuel percolates through the hose. It manages to do this even on very low mileage cars.
Cohline have assured me that their fuel line is E10 Compatible and deny completely that there is a problem.
I sent them a sample of their hose which had deteriorated catastrophically and this was examined by their Technical Department in Germany.
They concluded that there was nothing wrong with the hose, it had just been used at too high a temperature !!!
It would appear that the engine bay temperature on a 911 is unsuitable for Cohline hose as the product we used was rated at 50degC.
We have a customer who lives in France and used E85 fuel and the Cohline hose we fitted to his car lasted 4 months.
I have to say that I don't believe that temperature is the issue and it is the composition of the hose that is at fault. Cohline hose was always used and used to perform well it is clearly Ethanol compatibility that is the problem.
Our customer in France changed to another Cohline product which is a much thicker wall hose for Bio Diesel applications. This looks wrong but was better it lasted 10 months.
For the last 2 years we have changed hose annually just prior to an MOT test.
We are now using a Braided Hose from Aeroquip which is guaranteed as E85 Compatible but is £30 per metre but only tested for the last 6months.
We will not use any Cohline Rubber hose in fuel applications if we can find an alternative and I would be suspicious of even the steel braided hose.
For higher pressure hose with swaged fittings I would use a PTFE based product from Aeroquip or Goodrich.
Re: 21st Century fuel lines
Hi,
Have a look at this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=52342&hilit=http%3A ... s.co.uk%2F
Cheers,
Chris
Have a look at this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=52342&hilit=http%3A ... s.co.uk%2F
Cheers,
Chris
1971 911e
Re: 21st Century fuel lines
Interesting, I bought all of the Cohline hose we used to use from AFS.
We bought around 50 metres and have now replaced the hose on 8 cars - all of which had issues.
They have their own brand as well but they don't recommend that this is used with E10 fuels.
I am interested that some people don't seem to have issues with the Cohline product as a thread I started on Pelican seems to show that the breakdown we observed is quite common.
We bought around 50 metres and have now replaced the hose on 8 cars - all of which had issues.
They have their own brand as well but they don't recommend that this is used with E10 fuels.
I am interested that some people don't seem to have issues with the Cohline product as a thread I started on Pelican seems to show that the breakdown we observed is quite common.
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Gary71
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Re: 21st Century fuel lines
I'm using modern Goodyear hose with no issues on E10. The previous source of Halfrauds special lasted about 12 months.
Re: 21st Century fuel lines
I used to snigger at the stories from the US about weird voodoo processes to purge fuel from tank to tail, blowing out with an airline or even flushing with some snake-oil product.... Before winter lay up.
We were just not getting the same issues they were seeing from ethanol.
They now have off the shelf hose which is not widely available here, like Gates Barricade.
I have read that you can get suitable hose but it relies on a thin inner layer that can be cracked by barbed fittings or too much of a stretch & after such damage it lasts the usual 12m-ish.
Next time, I'm going to try using nylon pipe. It might be too inflexible but it seems to be the main product in modern cars and you'd struggle to find a rubber fuel hose in a modern car.
We were just not getting the same issues they were seeing from ethanol.
They now have off the shelf hose which is not widely available here, like Gates Barricade.
I have read that you can get suitable hose but it relies on a thin inner layer that can be cracked by barbed fittings or too much of a stretch & after such damage it lasts the usual 12m-ish.
Next time, I'm going to try using nylon pipe. It might be too inflexible but it seems to be the main product in modern cars and you'd struggle to find a rubber fuel hose in a modern car.
Re: 21st Century fuel lines
I had exactly the issue you've described fetuhoe, having bought some braided hose in Aug-08 and (despite an embarrassingly low intervening mileage) having them weep in 2012.
Now replaced with very non-original (but hopefully very safe) R9 hose purchased from AFS.
Now replaced with very non-original (but hopefully very safe) R9 hose purchased from AFS.
1971 911e
Re: 21st Century fuel lines
I agree about the Gates Barricade - I have bought a reel to try and also some of the cotton braided Gates hose which unlike the Cohline is rated at 80 degC to try to confirm Cohline's comments about temperature and their 50 degC rated hose.
My issue is that I really want to use a cotton braided hose that looks original on carburettor installations.
We also want to use a hose that will work with barbs and ferrules. PFTE hose will almost certainly be a problem and I am not sure about Barricade as it is designed for crimped fittings and from a Liability Insurance perspective could be an issue to supply fuel lines with hose barbs.
We now have several metre long hoses full of modern fuel and plugged to see what happens when we just leave them standing with fuel.
We have hose from 8 different suppliers and started the test 4 months ago.
I think the Aeropquip Startlite is the best bet as it is the only Cotton Braided Hose I can find rated for E85 fuel.
My issue is that I really want to use a cotton braided hose that looks original on carburettor installations.
We also want to use a hose that will work with barbs and ferrules. PFTE hose will almost certainly be a problem and I am not sure about Barricade as it is designed for crimped fittings and from a Liability Insurance perspective could be an issue to supply fuel lines with hose barbs.
We now have several metre long hoses full of modern fuel and plugged to see what happens when we just leave them standing with fuel.
We have hose from 8 different suppliers and started the test 4 months ago.
I think the Aeropquip Startlite is the best bet as it is the only Cotton Braided Hose I can find rated for E85 fuel.
Re: 21st Century fuel lines
I agree about the Gates Barricade - I have bought a reel to try and also some of the cotton braided Gates hose which unlike the Cohline is rated at 80 degC to try to confirm Cohline's comments about temperature and their 50 degC rated hose.
My issue is that I really want to use a cotton braided hose that looks original on carburettor installations.
We also want to use a hose that will work with barbs and ferrules. PFTE hose will almost certainly be a problem and I am not sure about Barricade as it is designed for crimped fittings and from a Liability Insurance perspective could be an issue to supply fuel lines with hose barbs.
We now have several 1 metre long hoses full of modern fuel and plugged to see what happens when we just leave them standing with fuel.
We have hose from 6 different suppliers and started the test 4 months ago.
I think the Aeropquip Startlite is the best bet as it is the only Cotton Braided Hose I can find rated for E85 fuel.
My issue is that I really want to use a cotton braided hose that looks original on carburettor installations.
We also want to use a hose that will work with barbs and ferrules. PFTE hose will almost certainly be a problem and I am not sure about Barricade as it is designed for crimped fittings and from a Liability Insurance perspective could be an issue to supply fuel lines with hose barbs.
We now have several 1 metre long hoses full of modern fuel and plugged to see what happens when we just leave them standing with fuel.
We have hose from 6 different suppliers and started the test 4 months ago.
I think the Aeropquip Startlite is the best bet as it is the only Cotton Braided Hose I can find rated for E85 fuel.
Re: 21st Century fuel lines
is there any UK fuel that is ethanol free these days ?
V-power used to be, but that now has an ethanol content I believe
V-power used to be, but that now has an ethanol content I believe
James
1973 911 2.4S
1993 964 C2
2010 987 Spyder
1973 MGB Roadster
Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast
1973 911 2.4S
1993 964 C2
2010 987 Spyder
1973 MGB Roadster
Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast
Re: 21st Century fuel lines
Found this thread on the internet No Ethanol in MURCO super unleaded fuel.
Interestingly one posters says that Esso Super Unleaded is free (which I was lead to believe) and another post describes a way of testing for ethanol in petrol. Basically you add equal amounts of petrol and water together and shake, if they mix you have ethanol.
I'm still sticking to adding 2 stroke marine oil to the fuel.
Interestingly one posters says that Esso Super Unleaded is free (which I was lead to believe) and another post describes a way of testing for ethanol in petrol. Basically you add equal amounts of petrol and water together and shake, if they mix you have ethanol.
I'm still sticking to adding 2 stroke marine oil to the fuel.
Brendan
1969 911T
2007 2.7 Boxster
Pray, hope and don't worry - Padre Pio
1969 911T
2007 2.7 Boxster
Pray, hope and don't worry - Padre Pio
Re: 21st Century fuel lines
Unbelievable! 3 months ago, I implied that I was going to get straight on this. After another major intervention of real life into my garage time, I now have an opportunity to get on with it!
Fetuhoe, I get the impression that you are in the trade in some way, and that you may be able to supply some of the best known spec hose? If so, could you drop me a line with your contact details, so I can pop over and pick some up? Ta.
Anyone else had a breakthrough on the question of the best fuel lines to use for ethanol-bearing fuel?
Cheers, Jon
Fetuhoe, I get the impression that you are in the trade in some way, and that you may be able to supply some of the best known spec hose? If so, could you drop me a line with your contact details, so I can pop over and pick some up? Ta.
Anyone else had a breakthrough on the question of the best fuel lines to use for ethanol-bearing fuel?
Cheers, Jon
DDK # 0362
'72 TE - Chilled by PorscheAir!
'72 TE - Chilled by PorscheAir!