WTB - 911 coupe shell or tub.

stwannabe · Post by **stwannabe** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:50 pm

Good evening, I'm new to this forum but in need of help. I purchased last year a 1975 911 2.7 with a blown engine and in need of bodywork restoration. My last 12 months has been spent stripping the shell and the engine and wondering what route to take with regard to backdating the car or keeping it original. I had decided that I wanted to go for the ST look, but during the strip down it quickly became apparent my car would need substantial structural welding, all inner arches, roof are extensively corroded. Whilst initially thinking the mechanical work would be expensive, I have just heard back today from a recognised Porsche bodywork specialist with a quote for labour (cost of parts not mentioned yet) but the labour alone to sort the shell would amount to 20k! Ouch, I don't want to abandon the restoration and think that my best option now would be to seek a good solid shell/tub as a better base for renovation to my existing car. My dream is to build an ST replica using my existing 2.7 engine (tuned of course with PMO's). Does anyone know to a good shell or perhaps someone less costly who may help me to resurrect my dream car. Any information or advice would be most welcome. Many thanks, Sean.

carsten · Post by **carsten** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:20 am

hmm problem is that any shell these days would be up there at the same price by the time you add paint, prep, any welding it would require. Anything nice and painted would be 20k and you would still have to tear into it to install flares etc, and then pay a new paintjob.

Also some "reputable" porsche specialists are so up their own ass'es and price there after, so get a few more qoutes for the work. As an example, a painter will try to charge more for a Porsche than a similiar sized coupe.. but considering they are both lumps of metal and all you want is ripple free and non-orange peel paint, I cant see why we have to pay a "porsche premium"

You could learn to do alot of the work yourself, remember Surfer dudes on the west coast used to tinker and build their own cars back in the days when the 911 was a $10k beater before it went all foo-foo fancy pants.

Them days of rustfree shells for cheap money are over. Also, current pricing these days almost make it better to restore a car than scrapping it ( at least with a long hood.. dunno about early shorties)

but never say never... people have brought swamp wrecks back to life, looking at some of the resto threads on this forum, and take a look at the impact bumper forum to see if anybody indeed has a shell floating around.

ps, your car becomes utterly worthless if its not matching numbers if you do reshell it (apparently)

MT · Post by MT » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:39 am

Agree with carsten ^^^^, don't give up yet. Shop around. And any 'rust-free' shell you do see advertised will probably just not have been torn down enough yet!

Let's see some photos of this un-saveable wreck and see what we have.

Mick

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:08 am

although, if you're going to throw cash & time at a shell .. best to do so for one that will be worth something in the future ... so if you can track down a pre-impact bumper shell logic says it would be more cost effective to restore that than a relatively unwanted '75 2.7 ( unless we are talking about a 75 carrera ? )

911hillclimber · Post by **911hillclimber** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:51 pm

Try comparing the prices you can get advertised for restoring an MGB shell.

I think sills are about 250 a side?
The metal work and parts are almost the same, I've done 3 MGB's and one 911, so can compare,
similarly the floor, wings etc.

As said correctly above there should be no Porsche Prices as the work and prep is the same for an MGB GT to a 911 labour wise for a similar level of restoration.
Price of parts is another issue of course, then there are the beautiful Heritage shells available...

Nick Moss · Post by **Nick Moss** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:25 pm

As said correctly above there should be no Porsche Prices as the work and prep is the same for an MGB GT to a 911 labour wise for a similar level of restoratio

I think you guys are underestimating the level of skill to restore a Porsche to factory (or better) quality. We see enough cars that are restored elsewhere to know that a non-Porsche specialist can make quite basic mistakes that require many hours to put right, they are not just pieces of metal. The same goes for paintwork, there are a couple of areas on the 911 that require a special technique to get the paint on the whole area evenly.
You pay your money and you take your choice, but don't expect the same quality.
As Hot66 says above, if you are going to restore a shell and get the maximum return should you later sell the car, start with an early shell. They cost more to buy, and will probably be a bit rustier, and the panels can be a little more than IB panels but the ST reps that get the most at resale are those based on early shells.
To the original poster, I have a beautiful 3.2 based ST rep for sale for just £32.5K

911hillclimber · Post by **911hillclimber** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:17 pm

What are you looking for Sean, a top notch pro finish car or a good solid hot rod to enjoy?

I've just googled 'pictures of MGB sill repairs' and those images are much like any 911 shell restoration on here to me. Please take a look.

I'm sure my standards are far lower than a pro built job, and if paying £20 just to do the metalwork PLUS parts on top of that I too would expect a better than new shell needing little to prep for paint.
There must be a latent value in that Alan or Barry or other body shop names renowned for their quality when it come to sell; that too has to be borne in mind.
An engine by Bob Watson is a more valuable engine than one 'built' by me! Reputable names count.

Then I guess you need to make that investment, £20K + parts, plus paint and have a fab shell, original, and enjoy the car after.

If labour is £35 (?) then £20K is about 14.28 weeks, 3.5 months solid work cutting and welding for one man. That shell must be in quite a state?

stwannabe · Post by **stwannabe** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:42 pm

Thanks 911 Hill climber, I'm just trying to find my way round the forum. I would like to achieve the best result I can, I'm in no panic to get the car done in say the next 12 months but having finished stripping the car a couple of months ago work has stopped, I've reached the limit of my skill base. I'm not scared to get my hands dirty and put the car back together myself, I've been quite methodical with the dismantling. I want to do the best job I can, not concourse but still to a high standard. I'm not restoring the car to sell on, I want to build something to my specification, and possibly with the potential to sprint or hill climb (i'm not a racing driver but regularly spectate at Curborough and Shelsy Walsh) Ideally I'd like to build an authentic looking ST replica and if it takes me 2 to 3 years I can live with that, but I need to get the momentum going again before I consider taking up fishing or road cycling. I have owned a couple of 911's so I should have picked up on the corrosion but eBay got the better of me and I fancied a project. I think it's more about the achievement of turning something scrap into a nice car. Any names numbers etc would be most welcome.

911hillclimber · Post by **911hillclimber** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:22 am

I have hillclimbed at those and other venues for over 20 years.
My first hillclimb car which I still have was my 911 below, so I feel I understand!

We all want our efforts to be good.
We want the best turn-out for the money we want to spend, and a 'Darren' type 911 on a hill could be a write-off PDQ and quite a loss of £££.

I hit a tree at the top esse at Shelsley Walsh a few years ago and the car was 1" shorter on one side than the other as a result.

I rebuilt that back.

Having self re-built my 911 shell with 8 months of DIY welding/painting part time during work etc in a one car garage you can get a reasonable result that would make the specialists weep, but still a reasonable result.

Where you have to turn to specialists then you do need to tread carefully imho, and again imho some are very full of we are Porsche specialists so charge a lot for the work others can do just as well, or in my case on mechanical work I've been dumped on by 3 specialists who are revered in this and other forums!

Being very much a hands-on car enthusiast of many years I do my own fabrication etc but in your area there are sure to be people you can turn to. Get the Classic Car mags and scour them. There are lots of good body work people out here who can help with good work and you will get a good car out of it. If the task phases them, move on.

I have a friend in Shrewsbury with an RS Replica and he had good body work done for him by a local shop. he is fastidious in his detail and knows 911's really well (a DDK member too). I could find out what shop he used recently on his 'RS'. I do not think it was a Porsche specialist but a bit of a one-man-band, but he was pleased with the result so he must be good!

Are you in the Midlands? If you go to those tracks you must be?

Still looks ok since rebuild in 1989

Hillclimbing a 911 can be really good!

haasad · Post by **haasad** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:52 am

I agree with the comments above regarding 911 or porsche work appearing to attract premium prices. Personally I think its totally fair as long as there's a market. However I do not agree that a 911 body or mechanicals is in anyway different in terms of the skills required to repair or maintain it from many other cars.

What is requisite are the skills and sadly they are difficult to track down these days.

The work that Alan, Nick, Barry, Mike etc etc all do is first class I'd be prepared to bet that if faced with a B, an Alfa, a Lotus or anything else they would make an equally good job of a restoration as can a suitably skilled individual working in their garage.

sladey · Post by **sladey** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:54 am

Have you thought of doing the bodywork yourself?

I'm having a go at mine and enjoying the journey. I've taken my time and am learning a bit at a time to weld, panel beat and fabricate. If I had the time and money I'd go on one of the 5 day body courses available. I'm still thinking of justifying it somehow.

If you make that investment in yourself then its a skill you'll never lose, and your only ongoing cost will be the metal.

I don't know from your description whether or not the car needs to go on a jig, and I have no idea how much one would cost. But you may be able to hire one, or buy one and then sell it on afterwards.

For me the joy of my car is about the journey not just the destination and from your comment that you want the satisfaction of turning scrap back into a car you may share the same attitude.

Just a thought.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Mr Pharmacist · Post by **Mr Pharmacist** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:42 am

I went on a evening class restoration course at my local tech college - cost £120 for the course (12 sessions). I learnt to weld and fabricate parts. I could have carried on and had a go on an english wheel and other equipment, but spent the rest of the time focussing on honing my skills.

It was well worth it when it came to restoring my 914 which my body shop refused to give me a quote on because it was so bad....

911hillclimber · Post by **911hillclimber** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:50 pm

DIY restoration is a superb 'journey', full of ups and downs but to get there is superb.
I was lucky to have a fab apprenticeship so that inc 6 months in the big fabrication shop where I was taught everything except TIG.

That stayed with me (along with all the other skills taught to me by craftsmen and professionals alike) and I still use them today.

One thing are skills, another is space and suitable space at that.
Doubt my next-doors would tolerated the months of angle grinder/drills etc but would if in short blasts.

My 911 is coming round to a light re-build and re-paint after 23 years on the road, it will be DIY again!

Thanks for the 'DIY' input, something I strongly believe in unless I lack the tools (first) and the skills to tackle a car.

I still maintain that a reasonable 911 shell weld-up is the same as a similar 'MGB'

The MGB owner wants the same precision as the 911 owner does, all down to the man, his skills and the parts he is working with.

stwannabe · Post by **stwannabe** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:44 pm

Hi Hill climber, I accept your comparison with the MGB owner, by the way your car looks great, I like the Webasto.

I've never attacked welding or any form of bodywork, it is something that I have not tried or really seen tried and I think therefore I lack the confidence to attempt it, plus many od the areas, particularly the inner arched are beyond patching, they are extensively corroded and the prospect of trying to weld new sections in and getting it all square I find quite daunting, the end result would look like that Peugeot 206 advert set in India.

I am based in Lichfield, Staffs. I did speak to a chap called Chris Flavell at Fenn Lane Motorsport, I went over to his workshop and he also came to see my shell. A really knowledgeable Porsche man with some lovely cars in his workshop close to Hinckley but he doesn't seem motivated to quote, I have chased him 3 or 4 times but still not heard back.

Mechanically, I am confident I can get the engine back together but the shell scares me. If you can squeeze a number from your friend with the RS I would be grateful. All the best.

911hillclimber · Post by **911hillclimber** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:48 pm

LOL, I remember that advert with the steel hammered from oil drums I think by some lads.
I will contact John and ask him for the number and pm back over the next few days assuming he is not on hols.

DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker