IVA thread

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mdmax72
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Re: IVA thread

Post by mdmax72 »

In reply to my further query regarding the filler, this is the reply.


"Good morning Richard,

Thank you for your further enquiry regarding this matter.

While I appreciate that the vehicle in question does make an interesting
point, it has not been approved under the IVA regulations and as such can
not be viewed as a precedent vehicle. Your vehicle has been assesed by our
policy branch and it has been decided by them that in its current format it
does not meet the requirements of the IVA regulations. Unfortunately, that
decision is the one that I am bound by."



I've replied back with these questions

If all manufacturers no matter how big or small have to adhere to
the IVA regulations and more across Europe then how can it be possible for Vw and other manufacturers to have a fuel filler within the passenger compartment.
The filler location must not share a luggage compartment aswell as a passenger compartment came into force in 2010.
I appreciate the M1 Amature build IVA regs is a watered down version of what the mainstream manufactures have to comply with, so how is it possible that these manufactures are still able to overcome the regs and still put a filler location shared with a passenger compartment after that date??

As you said yourself this is an interesting point. Could you not challenge this further?

Regards
Richard
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Re: IVA thread

Post by greg356a »

I guess when the rules are open to interpretation different counties will take a different stance. I guess other EU countries have their equivalent to IVA? Rick, thanks for trying. Looks like I will need to go down the temporary route and then rebuild afterwards.
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Re: IVA thread

Post by Splitpin »

How about blanking off the luggage compartment with a cover, so it's no longer useable.

The bonnet then becomes the filler cap
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Re: IVA thread

Post by H-G »

I'm about to start working in this area of my build so have been following the thread. Would I be correct in thinking that once the hoop's been jumped through then we can revert back to whatever filling method we want?

If so, I was thinking about putting a small motorcycle tank in the space between the rear seats and engine firewall with a small motorcycle filer in the body between the engine lid and the rear of the hood. A much flatter area for the filler cap, only one layer of GRP to go through, more direct pipework and more easy to fill the hole and revert back to a more stock tank in the front. A thin piece of plywood to cover the hole where the tank sits up front so that it's not fitted and cannot therefore be inspected.
mdmax72
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Re: IVA thread

Post by mdmax72 »

H-G

Once the car has passed you can do what you like with it, although legally should you.?? That's your choice.

If you install a fuel tank in the compartment between the rear seat and the firewall it would fail. The Iva inspector will need to check if the tank has an earth attached to the tank and mounted as it should be.If the only access is via the cockpit/passenger compartment it would fail. It would also fail on the grounds that it shares the cockpit/passenger compartment.

If you was the install a motorcycle tank into the spare wheel area and put a fuel filler behind the headlight it would also fail as the inspector would deem the tank as a temporary fixture, and to small for a car and fail it. What ever you fit or install it needs to look as though it's a perminant fixture.

I think Splitpin mentioned about sealing the bonnet up and use a throught the bonnet filler. This would also fail as the inspector need to see the earth strap to the tank and check the tank fixings. Not only that he needs to be able to have access the the brake fluid resovoir to test the brake fluid fail system.

Looks like the the only options are the wing or the scuttle as all other avenues have been exhausted.
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Re: IVA thread

Post by greg356a »

Morning, putting a fuel filler in the wing or scuttle and running a pipe through to the beetle fuel tank is not that difficult to achieve and would look good if you wanted it as a permanent fixture. Also no danger of dripping fuel on the bonnet and damaging the paint work if you did use a centre fill. I still plan to do a centre fill.

Rich, question over whether you should change the car after the test is a good one. At present I guess its the builders choice, just hope they don't tighten the rules further to prevent it.
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Re: IVA thread

Post by H-G »

I thought I was on to a winner by using the space between the rear seat and engine bay firewall but on re-reading the IVA book it would likely fail on section 03A, sub-para 12 - "The fuel tank must not be located in, or form part of the passenger compartment, or other compartment integral with it and the bulkhead that seperate the passengers from the fuel tank must be free of holes through which any escape fuel could travel"

Looks like it's back to the tank up front and a hole in the wing - bugger!

I quite like the thought of not having to drape a hose across the wing to fill up and no possibility of dripping fuel in the luggage compartment, but a bit concerned by a wing mounted filler looking out of place. Before I go spending out on the parts and get evil with a hole saw, has anyone gone down this route before, willing to share what they did and post photos of how it looked?
Last edited by H-G on Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
mdmax72
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Re: IVA thread

Post by mdmax72 »

I agree Greg, not at all to difficult to do a wing mount straight into the vw tank. Especially if your not painting until after Iva. It's just the look of it that puts many of but there's no option now.

Thinking about it, if you had the fuel flap on top of the wing instead of on the side, you could disguise it with a Carrera type mirror on top of the flap???
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Re: IVA thread

Post by greg356a »

if I was not already committed to the race tank, you idea would be great

Image
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IVA thread

Post by Splitpin »

I did not mean sealing the bonnet, I meant that the luggage area blanked off so it's only a fuel tank area.

Changing the vehicle after approval is like you buying a normal production car and then modifying it.

There is no law against the owner doing it to his own vehicle but if for example the emissions are changed then it's taxation class should also change.

Dvla a very hot on this at present the skoda yeti I ordered moved up a tax band because it had a sunroof and other heavy toys! The Eco models are very limited on spec for this reason.

It's 100% incorrect for a manufacturer to change a car after approval but that said it does not stop the Aerial Atom being sold, this has IVA happy bodywork fitted for its test and then it gets removed before delivery to the customer!

There are many cases of prosecution following a fatal crash and vehicle modifications have been sited as the cause from tinted glass in front doors to incorrect rated tyres.

I guess it's crazy making a 50s style car meet today's standards.
mdmax72
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Re: IVA thread

Post by mdmax72 »

Splitpin wrote:I did not mean sealing the bonnet, I meant that the luggage area blanked off so it's only a fuel tank area
Sorry Splitpin got the wires crossed.

Either way by blanking it off still isn't going to address the problem. Being if you have a through the bonnet filler, that's exceptable with a drip tray and a run of pipe going to the outside of the luggage area to the ground. What isn't is the fact the tank can still be filled with the bonnet open.

Bonkers, I know...
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Re: IVA thread

Post by Splitpin »

That's because the bonnet covers the luggage compartment.

Take that away and the bonnet is now just a fuel filler flap
mdmax72
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Re: IVA thread

Post by mdmax72 »

Decided to take a different direction with this as it's going in the wrong direction.

So before you start cutting up your wing etc for a filler flap. There maybe a solution to having a through the bonnet filler on the horizon that will comply with IVA.

Still in discussion with Mark at Vosa regarding this and my proposal, he has accepted. It will meet the criteria but just need to confirm one small detail before l let the cat out the bag.
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Re: IVA thread

Post by greg356a »

sounds very interesting?
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Re: IVA thread

Post by H-G »

Is the cat ready for release yet mdmax7?
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