More scary cr@p from DVLA

[KS]

Unlikely to raise any red flags for that - if you had said engine is now a 427 Chevy with a decidedly non-Porsche engine number then that could be a whole different issue…

[misteralz]

I read on another forum that the (most probable, tbh) reason is that they've nearly run out of Q plates. Still, at least they never got to Q999 YYY before they realised, which is encouraging.

[Bruce M]

Agree with KS.
Very light on details. The full details will be released next week on exactly the same day it goes in effect/ enforcement. So no prior sight of the rules / policy in advance

[911hillclimber]

I can see KS's view, and a lot of (real) hot rods like I used to do will/could be finding IVA on route when declaring the changes like a Big Block in an Austin 7 though I personally doubt IVA will check the engineering integrity of such an adventure, but a period reg is much nicer than a Q.
I changed the engine in my 911 twice in the 90's and it was a breeze with the DVLA so was Historic Status in the Post Office.

Things will never ever be the same when Simple common sense was Best, so I welcome these changes as much as I understand the wording.

The detail pages will be interesting to read when released. Might change my mind!!

Built in 1975, a 1937 Y Type Ford, home made chassis, V6 Capri engine and auto box, Vauxhall front independent suspension, VX490 front brakes. Jaguar S type independent rear axle with LSD.
Roof chapped down by 2" and a lot more.

All DIY. All registered on the original Registration DTV 230 built as above.
The 70's were the best!
Now in the USA.

[sladey]

The car did look cool Graham

[911hillclimber]

Thank you, I did love it!
Gave me 10 years of great fun in so many ways.
Shame it left the country, no idea where in the USA it ended up.
Sold it to a deaf and dumb lad in London who kept it for a few years and then is was exported.
Bought a 1930 Model A Ford, V8 Chassis change etc and chopped the top of course.
Never finished it and that ended up in Germany...



Had the 911 after that sale, another story quite well known by now.

[KS]

From the DVLA site published at midnight last night:

Structurally modified vehicles
If you modify a chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame to change the dimensions or appearance of the vehicle, this is known as a ‘structural modification’.
You must tell DVLA if you make a structural modification to a vehicle.
Modifications should only be done by a specialist. You’re responsible for making sure your vehicle is always safe to drive.
There’s a different process to tell DVLA if you replace the chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame to match the manufacturer’s specifications.
You do not need to tell them about any other repairs or restorations.

WHAT COUNTS AS STRUCTURAL MODIFICATION
Structural modification of cars, motorcycles or light goods vehicles (under 3,500kg) can include:
Altering the chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame (for example changing the shape so it looks like a different vehicle type)
Lengthening, shortening or widening the frame of a motorcycle
Cutting, lengthening, or shortening roof pillars
Removing the roof
Removing an integrated roll cage
Modifying or removing load-bearing sub-frames or support members
Making additional holes within 30cm of a suspension, steering, braking or seatbelt mounting point
Turning a motorcycle into a tricycle
You also need to tell DVLA if you modify a vehicle by converting it to run on electricity, even if you do not make structural modifications like changing the appearance.
See what else may count as a structural modification.

AFTER YOU MAKE THE CHANGE
You should have your vehicle MOT checked and ensure your vehicle insurance is still valid.
You can get an individual vehicle approval inspection (IVA) instead of an MOT if you have a car.

TURNING A MOTORCYCLE INTO A TRICYCLE
If you turn a motorcycle to a tricycle using a conversion kit or plan, it must be registered as a kit-converted vehicle.
If you did not use a conversion kit or plan, you must tell DVLA about the structural modification.
If the vehicle has a welded tricycle system, DVLA will need to issue a vehicle identification number (VIN). You’ll need to get motorcycle single vehicle approval (MSVA).

IF YOU NEED TO TELL DVLA ABOUT A STRUCTURALLY MODIFIED VEHICLE
Complete form V627/3 - ‘Modified vehicle statement’.
Send it to ‘Kits and Rebuilds’ at DVLA along with:
the vehicle log book (V5C)
evidence of a current MOT, IVA or MSVA (if required)

Kits and Rebuilds
D10
DVLA
Swansea
SA99 1ZZ

It's still incredibly vague about in so many areas. Like so many DVLA directives, it's as if it's only been thought half through. It almost suggests you can opt to have an MOT rather than IVA, which is highly unlikely. Dig out the popcorn, sit back and watch the fun...

[Sam]

I dunno. Looks pretty sensible to me, it’s pretty clear what the intention of the rules are and there’s no way they could write something specific enough to cover all eventualities.

[911hillclimber]

I do not read anything new in this release for cars.

Ending with a statement that anything else that is a modification is wide open.

What about mods made years and decades ago?
There are many older car that have had holes drilled, chassis welded with strengtheners and so much more.

I am not familiar with the IVA requirements, but how does an IVA examination determine if a mod has been made structurally safely?
How do they determine that welds have been made under all the paint etc of the chassis that may have been ground down mercilessly in favour of appearance than strength, so many welds are ground down including the adjacent sheet metal from 0.4 mm to 0.1mm or more. He has to find the welds first!

What determines a professional?
Someone who sets-up in business fixing cars for money or someone who has done the job once before? Are they certified fabricators before they can do this work or before starting a business with these services?

The DVLA have changed their stance by this Survey and pollical pressure, they can never produce a 'book' that covers all aspects, just general guidelines.

Above all for me is when do all these 'rules' apply?
Now, today and here on in?
Any vehicle made after 1948? Or 1902?

You cannot make changes rules and apply them retrospectively.

[KS]

There is tons more to get your head round in different areas of the site, some of which can be quite contradictory :

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/ind ... e-approval

[911hillclimber]

If there is contradiction then the 'Standard' is poor; it's purpose is too broad, misunderstood or simply badly thought out and written.
Writing these passages is a real skill, I've had 2 deep experiences having been on UK Standards writing with a professional guiding us. Very interesting exercise.

Can't help thinking there are more pressing things to worry about, but I'll have a good read if I can make it to the end!

[Nine One One]

Keith is quite right there are a number of contradictory items which needs some clarity, especially when the main M1 IVA Inspection Manual does not give the same information the Gov website gives or states.............for example.

This refers to M1 passenger classification vehicles

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... hicles.pdf

Exemptions from vehicle approval

Cars and minibuses with 8 passenger seats or less (not including the driver) over 10 years old.
So basically a normal car that was first registered / manufactured prior to 2015, so would surely cover all classic cars as being exempt from IVA

BUT

If you’re importing a vehicle

You will need vehicle approval to tax your vehicle if it was first registered on or after 1 March 2001 with EU type approval and it’s either:

A car or minibus with 8 passenger seats or less (not including the driver) and with a CO2 emissions figure in g/km
So not a Classic Car then if registered prior to 1/3/2001 in another country.



Individual vehicle approval

You can use the individual vehicle approval (IVA) scheme if you’re making or importing a single, or a very small number of:
passenger cars

Basic and normal IVA

There are 2 levels of IVA inspection: basic and normal.

Basic IVA

Basic IVA involves a visual inspection and other tests to make sure the vehicle meets the necessary standards. You will not normally need to provide any documentary evidence.

You can apply if you have a passenger car or light goods vehicle in one of these categories:

left-hand drive vehicles (so all LHD imported vehicles now need an IVA?)
personal imports (Do not get this confused with YOU importing a car…….this is more to do with people overseas coming to the UK and bringing their car back with them)
Amateur built vehicles (kit cars)
Rebuilt vehicles (this is a re-shell)
A vehicle manufactured using parts of a registered vehicle

So it now looks like ALL imported LHD now need a basic IVA instead of a normal MOT

Definitions of vehicles eligible for the Basic Scheme

a. Left hand drive vehicle

Vehicles designed for use primarily on the right-hand side of the road

b. Personal Import

A vehicle is a personally imported vehicle if all of the following apply

it has been imported by a person entering the United Kingdom (in the case of a serving member of the Armed Forces, is to be imported within 12

months of the date of application)

that person, at the time the vehicle was imported (in the case of a serving member of the Armed Forces, at the time of application) had been

normally resident in a country other than the UK for a continuous period of at least 12 months

that person intends to become normally resident in the UK

the vehicle has been in the possession of that person and used by them in the country where he has been normally resident for a period of at

least 6 months before its importation, and it is intended for his personal or household use in the UK.

Model reports

One way of proving your vehicle is compliant is by showing it’s the same specification as another vehicle (a ‘master vehicle’) that’s been proved compliant. You do this using a model report. ( I assume this is Type Approval )

If a model report has already been produced for your exact model of vehicle, you may be able to use it for a fee. Search online to find model reports and their owners.

Otherwise, you’ll need to pay for your own tests to be carried out. These must be done by an authorised provider of ‘designated technical services’.

(But all Passenger vehicles with 8 passenger seats or LESS that are more than 10 years old do not need Vehicle Approval anyway……….DVLA has already said so……….cars and minibuses with 8 passenger seats or less (not including the driver) over 10 years old) UNLESS it appears it is LHD that was imported………….so what is going on??

[911hillclimber]

Yes, I read that yesterday, it reads all LHD cars (M1) need IVA when in this country, presumably from a few days ago when all this was released.

This cannot be from a past time, has to be from 'now'.

Also, a single build to a 'very small number' comment. Why not set the max number?
Is is 2 or 202? for example. If you set a minimum, then you have to set the max too or risk falling foul. If you are defining things, then complete the definition.

I have an interest in the subject, I've built cars before any of this was in force, or if it was nobody at DVLA told me or anyone I knew when advising changes.

I always thought advising changes was all about getting the car in the right taxation class, the MoT handled the 'safe car' aspects.

My 1937 Ford Hot Rod passed every MoT with ease with all those changes for years and about 40K miles.

Everyone seemed happy.

[KS]

It is a typical DVLA mess, the consequence I suspect of different people in different departments setting out their own interpretation of some vague guidelines...

[Bruce M]

Had a scan of some of the M1 manual and certainly can see some possible challenges to be ironed out over time.

For example importing a LHD 356 with a fuel tank filler neck inside the luggage area…