DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Basically, we have no idea what is trying to be achieved here other than closing loopholes that have allowed some people to exploit the system (notably the Bugatti fiasco). As a result of this, there is now potential for a lot of collateral damage...

Yes, I can see them turning a blind eye to steel for steel modifications, but at this stage the wording is that the monocoque must remain unmodified from the state in which it left the factory – it can be repaired, like for like, but not altered. Who knows how this will work out in practice?

As for rebodied MR2s etc, they are not historic vehicles, so none of this is applicable. They have their own worries...

There is indeed no groundswell against classics, but there is/was a groundswell among owners of genuine Bugattis against those who sought to register South American Pur Sang replicas as originals...

Yes, the fall out from those has really rippled far and wide. However, legislation is already in place to cover those: they clearly fail both the 'eight point' and the 'new parts' rules you mentioned before. There is either zero % original early car there, or near enough.

In terms of the classic / vintage / modified population, those and cars like them will surely represent a tiny fraction of 1%. If I was pessimistic, I'd be making baby and bathwater comments. As it is, I'll trust that after a stormy period, common sense and good advice all round will kick in, and we'll end up with a relatively sensible new normal.

My advice is, if you are planning to build an RSR replica on an early car, with coil-over suspension and a big engine – maybe a G50 trans – I might be inclined to wait a while to see how this pans out in reality.

I wonder whether the term original suspension, axles, transmission etc. means original standard unmodified or the exact items that were fitted to the car when it left the factory?

KS wrote: As for rebodied MR2s etc, they are not historic vehicles, so none of this is applicable. They have their own worries...

So, potentially dumb question (and I appreciate we're all somewhat in the dark over this) does this change effect the chances of building a "replica" or kit car and retaining an age related plate? For example a 356 replica on a shortened VW floor pan..

I assume there's a bit of a cross over there because the base car is older but its a new build. You're not really planning on getting tax free / MOT free status necessarily, just trying to avoid the Q-Plate!

smallspeed wrote:

KS wrote: As for rebodied MR2s etc, they are not historic vehicles, so none of this is applicable. They have their own worries...

So, potentially dumb question (and I appreciate we're all somewhat in the dark over this) does this change effect the chances of building a "replica" or kit car and retaining an age related plate? For example a 356 replica on a shortened VW floor pan..

I assume there's a bit of a cross over there because the base car is older but its a new build. You're not really planning on getting tax free / MOT free status necessarily, just trying to avoid the Q-Plate!

This is what the DVLA has to say on the subject:

7. Kit-converted vehicles

Your vehicle must meet the road vehicles regulations if you use it on the road.
A kit-converted vehicle has had:

a kit of new parts added to an existing vehicle, or
old parts added to a new kit
The general appearance of the vehicle will change because of the kit.

How to register
You must follow all the instructions for registering a new vehicle.

You’ll need to include the following with your application:

form V627/1 - ‘Built up vehicle inspection report’
the vehicle registration certificate for the original vehicle
evidence of type approval, if necessary – see ‘Vehicle type approval’ below
official receipts for any parts used
build plans
photographs of the vehicle
Contact DVLA if you’re not sure about what you need to provide.

Send your application to:

K and R
DVLA
SA99 1ZZ
Keep a vehicle’s original registration number
You can apply to keep a kit converted vehicle’s original registration number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with the original unmodified:

chassis (car or light van)
monocoque bodyshell (car or light van)
frame (motorbike)
Get an age-related registration number
You can apply for an age-related number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with:

a new monocoque bodyshell, chassis or frame from a specialist kit manufacturer
an altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame from the original vehicle
The registration number will be based on the age of the original vehicle.

Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get an age-related registration number.

Get a Q registration number
DVLA will give your vehicle a ‘Q’ prefix registration number if you don’t meet the conditions for getting an original or age-related registration number.

Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get a Q registration number.

THIS is the kind of thing that f•cked it up for everyone... Quite how a dealer has the nerve to publicly put this on sale.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-se ... 2572104314

To quote: 'The truck is based on a Series 2 land rover body, Defender galvanised chassis, registered on V5 as a 1959 Leyland AM 4x4 utilty'

nice!
that info re: kit cars clears up a lot - appreciate it..

What about things like them Beck 500 Spyders, mostly built on an aged VW chassis ?

majordad wrote:What about things like them Beck 500 Spyders, mostly built on an aged VW chassis ?

IVA and Q-plate.

It seems that the 15% increase rule is a bit out of leftfield but ultimately it will just stop a few cars falling into the mot exempt category and bring a few pre-60 cars back into needing MOT's. Free tax or MOT free is not really the big issue.

The scary bit is the annual declaration required when you go to tax the car. Its all very well running a modified car that was 'declared' to your insurance company but quietly under the DVLA & VOSA radar. Not faced with an explicit question from DVLA, people for years have run cars that should need a BIVA because the likelyhood of getting found was low to non existant. With this new declaration and the joined up insurance/tax databases, if you are explicitly asked every year if your car is substantially changed, most of us will be compelled to answer truthfully.

The backlog for BIVA tests is going to be huge!

If you've got an hour or three, here's the link to the full IVA test manual. All 308 pages of it... Enjoy.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... manual.pdf

Keith,

I'm pretty familiar with the IVA manual as I am building my 356 Pre-A coupe replica to it, spent a fortune getting compliant glass for it!

But I am concerned about the new system and my split bus with straight axle and narrowed beam (not uncommon and all declared to insurance), I was always on the verge of having 8 points depending on how you define axle/suspension/steering, but I was able to pretend to be on the right side of the line as no-one was explicitly asking me. With this question at tax application time each year, its gonna be alot harder to dodge the question.

Richardab1967 wrote:Keith,

I'm pretty familiar with the IVA manual as I am building my 356 Pre-A coupe replica to it, spent a fortune getting compliant glass for it!

But I am concerned about the new system and my split bus with straight axle and narrowed beam (not uncommon and all declared to insurance), I was always on the verge of having 8 points depending on how you define axle/suspension/steering, but I was able to pretend to be on the right side of the line as no-one was explicitly asking me. With this question at tax application time each year, its gonna be alot harder to dodge the question.

Sorry, my comment about the manual wasn't aimed at you, but everyone who's unfamiliar with the whole IVA thing (that included me when it came to detail). I take my hat off to anyone who still wants to build a hot rod (or kit car) from scratch.

Question for Keith.

How about about a stock all original 356 with a 912 engine is that going to be a problem?

Lots of them out there.

Big thanks for all this info Keith.