Lock barrel brass tumblers help
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Lock barrel brass tumblers help
Can anyone with experience help with a lock barrel issue please, for my drivers door handles?
I have taken apart (recorded) and cleaned and decreased the barrels and put them both back together and back into the handles. They both turn OK with the key. The key also works in the ignition.
Just a couple of queries...
Only one set of the brass tumblers (?) were numbered, 1 to 3. The same barrel had a tumbler and spring missing (at one end), but the key still turned the lock OK.
It was difficult to distinguish between the individual tumblers (I photographed and compared them), almost as if they were all a random shape, I am assuming because they are so worn
Also, the shapes of the numbered tumblers on one lock did not clearly match the shape on the other (un-numbered).
QUESTIONS
-is it time to change the tumblers? They don't seem to be readily available for DIY - anyone know where I can find the correct type for a 'sensible' price (plus at least one spring)?
-presumably if I try a 1,2,3 & 4 tumbler in the missing slot, I can determine which is correct/works?
-presumably, the key is worn too - is it possible to get a key made up to match 'the code' itself (as opposed to making a new key from the old key)
Caveat - I really don't want to touch the ignition barrel, let alone take it apart
Thank you!
I have taken apart (recorded) and cleaned and decreased the barrels and put them both back together and back into the handles. They both turn OK with the key. The key also works in the ignition.
Just a couple of queries...
Only one set of the brass tumblers (?) were numbered, 1 to 3. The same barrel had a tumbler and spring missing (at one end), but the key still turned the lock OK.
It was difficult to distinguish between the individual tumblers (I photographed and compared them), almost as if they were all a random shape, I am assuming because they are so worn
Also, the shapes of the numbered tumblers on one lock did not clearly match the shape on the other (un-numbered).
QUESTIONS
-is it time to change the tumblers? They don't seem to be readily available for DIY - anyone know where I can find the correct type for a 'sensible' price (plus at least one spring)?
-presumably if I try a 1,2,3 & 4 tumbler in the missing slot, I can determine which is correct/works?
-presumably, the key is worn too - is it possible to get a key made up to match 'the code' itself (as opposed to making a new key from the old key)
Caveat - I really don't want to touch the ignition barrel, let alone take it apart
Thank you!
Dean
1973T Targa MFI 334 met blu- under restoration https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 28&t=67060
1980 924 Turbo, blu/grn tartan - restored
1973T Targa MFI 334 met blu- under restoration https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 28&t=67060
1980 924 Turbo, blu/grn tartan - restored
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Re: Lock barrel brass tumblers help
If they turn ok, then there is no real problem - provided any key cannot open the door. If they are getting sticky and your tumbler order is correct, then the key is worn, or spring missing/lost tension, or tumbler needed greasing.
If they dont turn easily (key worn, or "need to create a new lock") you can just file the brass ends of the tumblers so that they turn easy. Any that dont have the spring, leave out the entire tumbler. I have "rekeyed" 911 door locks using the "file tumbler end" method (i,e fit a different lock to a "new key"), but it would also work to "take up the slack" from a worn key.
If you have a key code, then I would think your local dealer could make you a brand new key. You could try this first if you dont want to file your tumblers.
If they dont turn easily (key worn, or "need to create a new lock") you can just file the brass ends of the tumblers so that they turn easy. Any that dont have the spring, leave out the entire tumbler. I have "rekeyed" 911 door locks using the "file tumbler end" method (i,e fit a different lock to a "new key"), but it would also work to "take up the slack" from a worn key.
If you have a key code, then I would think your local dealer could make you a brand new key. You could try this first if you dont want to file your tumblers.
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Re: Lock barrel brass tumblers help
If you are reasonably sure the locks are original, your OPC ought to be able to get you new keys from your chassis number
JW
JW
Life's a single timed run with no practice....
1970 914/6 2.4E/Webers
1970 VW Beetle project
1972 911 Hillclimber 3.2 MFI. Part of the family for 30+ years!
2006 Hymer Merc Starline 630
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2000 Golf V5 Estate GT (Greyhound Transport!)
1970 914/6 2.4E/Webers
1970 VW Beetle project
1972 911 Hillclimber 3.2 MFI. Part of the family for 30+ years!
2006 Hymer Merc Starline 630
2000 T4 Van LPG
2000 Golf V5 Estate GT (Greyhound Transport!)
Re: Lock barrel brass tumblers help
You need to looking for may be aliexpress C-26-101 or A-26-101 and change with some new
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Re: Lock barrel brass tumblers help
The tumblers and springs used to be available in sets from the USA
I think Richard Fry brought my set back with him when he went on holiday so worth investigating US suppliers
I think Richard Fry brought my set back with him when he went on holiday so worth investigating US suppliers
Re: Lock barrel brass tumblers help
Judging by Pelican posts, there is only one supplier of the tumblers, but they only supply sets to locksmiths. There are similar-looking versions for other cars on AliExpress, but I haven't come across any that look correct, and certainly none specific to our cars..
Thanks anyway!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003 ... K%21%21ABS
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003 ... 6095%22%7D
Thanks anyway!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003 ... K%21%21ABS
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003 ... 6095%22%7D
Dean
1973T Targa MFI 334 met blu- under restoration https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 28&t=67060
1980 924 Turbo, blu/grn tartan - restored
1973T Targa MFI 334 met blu- under restoration https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 28&t=67060
1980 924 Turbo, blu/grn tartan - restored
Re: Lock barrel brass tumblers help
Just posting here for the record.
Not sure if these are OEM part numbers or not:
tumbler #1, part number P26-101
tumbler #2, part number P26-102
tumbler #3, part number P26-103
tumbler #4, part number P26-104
911 from 1970-98, 914 from 1968-76
http://www.carlocks.com/public/catalog/ ... 0locks.pdf
Not sure if these are OEM part numbers or not:
tumbler #1, part number P26-101
tumbler #2, part number P26-102
tumbler #3, part number P26-103
tumbler #4, part number P26-104
911 from 1970-98, 914 from 1968-76
http://www.carlocks.com/public/catalog/ ... 0locks.pdf
Dean
1973T Targa MFI 334 met blu- under restoration https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 28&t=67060
1980 924 Turbo, blu/grn tartan - restored
1973T Targa MFI 334 met blu- under restoration https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 28&t=67060
1980 924 Turbo, blu/grn tartan - restored
- AndrewSlater
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Re: Lock barrel brass tumblers help
If you need a new master key then I have used https://www.keysinthepost.com/
It was a few years ago but the service was great and they weren't very expensive.
You send them a photo of one of your keys and they can identify what the tumbler sequence is and remanufacture a 'fresh' key to the code.
They can also tell you what the tumbler codes sequence is.
As others have said the tumbler kits used to be available from the States or Germany and used to be sold on eBay.
If you can work out what tumblers codes you need I or others may have some spares.
Good luck
Andrew
It was a few years ago but the service was great and they weren't very expensive.
You send them a photo of one of your keys and they can identify what the tumbler sequence is and remanufacture a 'fresh' key to the code.
They can also tell you what the tumbler codes sequence is.
As others have said the tumbler kits used to be available from the States or Germany and used to be sold on eBay.
If you can work out what tumblers codes you need I or others may have some spares.
Good luck
Andrew
1966 Porsche 912 Slate Grey, red interior - first owner owned for 41 years
1974 Porsche 911 2.7 (The Manhattan project) viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51455
1973 VW 914 1.7 Olympic Blue - ( gone to a good home )
1974 Porsche 911 2.7 (The Manhattan project) viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51455
1973 VW 914 1.7 Olympic Blue - ( gone to a good home )
Re: Lock barrel brass tumblers help
Thanks for the tip Andrew - I do need a spare key anyway and have asked them for a price.
An update on my quest, and a few titbits that I discovered about our locks:
I realised yesterday that I had a spare bonnet release handle. Luckily, when I digged it out, it still had the lock barrel so I disassembled it to pinch the tumblers.
I also took my door locks apart again to have a better look. Then I got carried away and took apart my glovebox lock too, and I managed to re-code it with a few missing tumblers to match my bonnet lock! Interestingly, only one of the 4 sets of tumblers were stamped with numbers. I think I might have an incorrect set of (unnumbered) tumblers in one of my door locks, and I think they have been filed to make the lock work.
There are 10 tumblers per lock, for doors, glovebox and bonnet. It turns out that, not only can you file down the the tumblers to suit (by filing off any protruding bits), you can also leave tumblers out (as someone said in one of the first posts) and it will still lock with one tumbler! Obviously, too many missing tumblers from door locks might not be good for security, but if you have a couple missing and cannot obtain them, its not a big deal. It is probably safe to leave many more out of the bonnet and glovebox locks, especially if that's what it takes to get the lock to match your key. The glovebox lock is held in by a tiny hollow pin (I used a pick to pull it out easily). The bonnet lock is held in by a grub screw, next to the lock pin. The door locks are held in by a slotted screw at the tip.
Does anyone have an idea how a valet key and master key differ?
An update on my quest, and a few titbits that I discovered about our locks:
I realised yesterday that I had a spare bonnet release handle. Luckily, when I digged it out, it still had the lock barrel so I disassembled it to pinch the tumblers.
I also took my door locks apart again to have a better look. Then I got carried away and took apart my glovebox lock too, and I managed to re-code it with a few missing tumblers to match my bonnet lock! Interestingly, only one of the 4 sets of tumblers were stamped with numbers. I think I might have an incorrect set of (unnumbered) tumblers in one of my door locks, and I think they have been filed to make the lock work.
There are 10 tumblers per lock, for doors, glovebox and bonnet. It turns out that, not only can you file down the the tumblers to suit (by filing off any protruding bits), you can also leave tumblers out (as someone said in one of the first posts) and it will still lock with one tumbler! Obviously, too many missing tumblers from door locks might not be good for security, but if you have a couple missing and cannot obtain them, its not a big deal. It is probably safe to leave many more out of the bonnet and glovebox locks, especially if that's what it takes to get the lock to match your key. The glovebox lock is held in by a tiny hollow pin (I used a pick to pull it out easily). The bonnet lock is held in by a grub screw, next to the lock pin. The door locks are held in by a slotted screw at the tip.
Does anyone have an idea how a valet key and master key differ?
Dean
1973T Targa MFI 334 met blu- under restoration https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 28&t=67060
1980 924 Turbo, blu/grn tartan - restored
1973T Targa MFI 334 met blu- under restoration https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 28&t=67060
1980 924 Turbo, blu/grn tartan - restored
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Re: Lock barrel brass tumblers help
This picture shows the difference between the 2 keys. It's cut exactly the same.
Lock barrel brass tumblers help
Ok if your car have the original switch: you can sent email to your porsche classic dealer and get your key code. With the code I can get your wafer/tumbler order. But may be more fast you can try the tumbler in the door cilinder order and get the 10 wafer/tumbler order. This is a HC/NC 1-2080 series code and all door, ignition, glove box and trunk have the same code. 1970 was the 1st year you have only one key and 1 code to the 911s.
And yes de diference is because the keys perfil are diference:
See the pictures and the Ralpf photo.
Your number 4 wafer is Why your red key don’t open the glove box and don’t open the trunk.
Re: Lock barrel brass tumblers help
A trunk key has been mentioned a couple of times here. Where is this found please? I wasn’t aware of it and have only ever opened the trunk with the pull cable inside the car.
I haven’t tried keysinthepost but recently I was looking for the key number for my car but the key I had was quite worn and a couple of people I contacted said they couldn’t help. However Stuart at keys4classics in Australia provided an excellent service in decoding my key and posted a cut key to try on the locks. Highly recommended. I’ll get some Porsche keys cut from this.
Kind regards
Gitesh
I haven’t tried keysinthepost but recently I was looking for the key number for my car but the key I had was quite worn and a couple of people I contacted said they couldn’t help. However Stuart at keys4classics in Australia provided an excellent service in decoding my key and posted a cut key to try on the locks. Highly recommended. I’ll get some Porsche keys cut from this.
Kind regards
Gitesh
Re: Lock barrel brass tumblers help
It was a option in the coupe.911GP wrote:A trunk key has been mentioned a couple of times here. Where is this found please? I wasn’t aware of it and have only ever opened the trunk with the pull cable inside the car.
I haven’t tried keysinthepost but recently I was looking for the key number for my car but the key I had was quite worn and a couple of people I contacted said they couldn’t help. However Stuart at keys4classics in Australia provided an excellent service in decoding my key and posted a cut key to try on the locks. Highly recommended. I’ll get some Porsche keys cut from this.
Kind regards
Gitesh
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- AndrewSlater
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Re: Lock barrel brass tumblers help
With regard to the how the valet key works there is some further info on 914World here http://www.914world.com/specs/rekey.php
Look out for the discussion of valet wafers in the glovebox and trunk locks.
Regards
Andrew
Look out for the discussion of valet wafers in the glovebox and trunk locks.
Regards
Andrew
1966 Porsche 912 Slate Grey, red interior - first owner owned for 41 years
1974 Porsche 911 2.7 (The Manhattan project) viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51455
1973 VW 914 1.7 Olympic Blue - ( gone to a good home )
1974 Porsche 911 2.7 (The Manhattan project) viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51455
1973 VW 914 1.7 Olympic Blue - ( gone to a good home )
Re: Lock barrel brass tumblers help
Discontinued when out c-26-101/104 out by ASP, now Porsche dealers only P-26-101/104deano wrote:Just posting here for the record.
Not sure if these are OEM part numbers or not:
tumbler #1, part number P26-101
tumbler #2, part number P26-102
tumbler #3, part number P26-103
tumbler #4, part number P26-104
911 from 1970-98, 914 from 1968-76
http://www.carlocks.com/public/catalog/ ... 0locks.pdf
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk