Comparative values of 'classic' cars ...

[Lightweight_911]

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I've often wondered why certain makes/models of 'classic' cars appear to be valued at significantly lower prices than some of their contemporaries.

There are a number of factors that can affect the perceived value of a particular model - rarity, competition success, advanced features/spec (for the period), spares availability/support network, etc.

However, even taking those factors into account there are anomalies ...

As an example take the 750/101 Alfa Giulietta Sprint (ignoring the early Veloce Lightweight models) which typically sells for 50% of the price of an equivalent Porsche 356.

Or a Lancia Fulvia 1.3HF Coupe compared to a similar condition Porsche 912 (~ 2/3 of the price of the Porsche).

Is there a logical explanation - or is it arbitrary ?

From a personal point of view, I've always been attracted to the 'underdog' - the makes/models that seem to have been overlooked - but when it comes to resale (those that know me are aware that I don't get sentimentally attached to cars - or have any brand allegiance) - those same anomalies invariably apply ...

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[210bhp]

There are a lot of factors which elevate a brand (in all walks of life) above its peers. A lot of common sense in terms of cars apply (items that you have already mentioned) but there are always perceived differences (either real or manufactured) that capture the imagination of the audience which inevitably drives up demand and therefore prices.
I would suggest that quality of original components in our ‘early’ cars has to be the obvious starting point which creates a strong brand image. We all know the comments (justified or not) about, say, early Italian cars (rusty) or Swedish cars (safe but boring) or early Japanese cars (good value but design deficient). Whether we all believe these things or not, mud eventually sticks. I think the quality of Porsche results in reliability, therefore race success, therefore longevity, therefore desirability coupled with the relatively low production volume (pre water cooled) and clever marketing (“admit it, you never dreamt of owning a Nissan”) create a desirable brand. There is a very long history of engineering excellence right back to the late 19th century with Ferdinand Porsche which has to be admired. The unique design silhouette of the pure early 911 shape has also got to be an unbelievable help to brand image. When there were few on the road, as a boy, if I caught a glimpse of one it was like nothing else. All the others looked like a box compared to a 911. And then there was the sound, also like nothing else at the time. And then there were the colours, a palette and names of hues like no other manufacturer at the time. Suddenly it became a constant dream to own one. There were cars that you could admire for their beautiful lines, cars that were very fast, ‘nice’ cars that were much cheaper, cars that were luxuriously appointed but I don’t think there has been any other car model that quite hit the spot at the right time like a 911. I think this desirability continues to this day and hence the disparity in prices you describe. I don’t know enough about the other models you mention from the same period but that must mean they didn’t capture the imagination so much for me (and others?) as a 911.

Regards
Mike

[Ian Gunney]

Something I've been pondering too Andy - I struggle with the Fulvia vs Alfa 105 price differential - but from a value perspective, I really can't understand why Elan's are (relatively) so cheap (other than an Mike says it's about perceptions around build quality) but then looking at the build quality of 70's Ferrari's....

[Sam]

I agree the recognition of the 911 and evolved brand of Porsche is the key.

A Fulvia or Giulietta mean very little to most people who are under 40, probably under 50, where a 911 is still a thing for any age.

Cars from brands that are still going strong like Ferrari do much better, though Porsche is still disproportionately miles up - a low mileage 964 is maybe 80% more than its price when new, a Testarossa of the same age is still worth less than it was new.

Porsche has just become much more fashionable recently, probably just over the last 15 years. You could pick up decent SWB 911 for £25k then or a 964 for £12k, now you’ll be 4 times that, no other brand has shifted like that.

Loads of pop culture things have fed into it - I’m thinking the whole Singer, Magnus Walker, RWB alternative scene has had a big effect, much as mini and Lotus saw success from associating with 60s pop culture icons.

[RobFrost]

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I've often wondered why certain makes/models of 'classic' cars appear to be valued at significantly lower prices than some of their contemporaries.

There are a number of factors that can affect the perceived value of a particular model - rarity, competition success, advanced features/spec (for the period), spares availability/support network, etc.

However, even taking those factors into account there are anomalies ...

As an example take the 750/101 Alfa Giulietta Sprint (ignoring the early Veloce Lightweight models) which typically sells for 50% of the price of an equivalent Porsche 356.

Or a Lancia Fulvia 1.3HF Coupe compared to a similar condition Porsche 912 (~ 2/3 of the price of the Porsche).

Is there a logical explanation - or is it arbitrary ?

From a personal point of view, I've always been attracted to the 'underdog' - the makes/models that seem to have been overlooked - but when it comes to resale (those that know me are aware that I don't get sentimentally attached to cars - or have any brand allegiance) - those same anomalies invariably apply ...

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Ongoing present day dominance of the 911 as a premium sports car, and excellent Porsche marketing, including leveraging 911 heritage, continue to drive interest in and demand for, older 911s. And them being brilliantly engineered cars.

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

[stretch]

I agree the recognition of the 911 and evolved brand of Porsche is the key.

A Fulvia or Giulietta mean very little to most people who are under 40, probably under 50, where a 911 is still a thing for any age.

Cars from brands that are still going strong like Ferrari do much better, though Porsche is still disproportionately miles up - a low mileage 964 is maybe 80% more than its price when new, a Testarossa of the same age is still worth less than it was new.

Porsche has just become much more fashionable recently, probably just over the last 15 years. You could pick up decent SWB 911 for £25k then or a 964 for £12k, now you’ll be 4 times that, no other brand has shifted like that.

Loads of pop culture things have fed into it - I’m thinking the whole Singer, Magnus Walker, RWB alternative scene has had a big effect, much as mini and Lotus saw success from associating with 60s pop culture icons.

Totally agree with everything there Sam. There marketing sets them apart. They make sure they support there heritage which then catches the eye.
This link is a perfect example of that ethos. https://mart.pca.org/news/porsche-911-c ... at-auction. The much hated 996.

When was the last time Lotus etc did something similar that then spreads the brand awareness around the world.?

[Lightweight_911]

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This is the bit that that's puzzled me :

Porsche has just become much more fashionable recently, probably just over the last 15 years. You could pick up decent SWB 911 for £25k then or a 964 for £12k, now you’ll be 4 times that, no other brand has shifted like that

- but then, maybe this is one of the main reasons:

- I’m thinking the whole Singer, Magnus Walker, RWB alternative scene has had a big effect...

My initial post wasn't aimed specifically at Porsche values - although I made the mistake of using 2 Porsche models in my comparisons - but why certain makes/models of classic cars are valued significantly differently than other cars of similar age/spec/capability/etc ...

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[stichill99]

I was watching a bit of Anglia car auctions live streaming before and there was a smart looking pagoda which only made circa £48000,I wonder if the interest rate,cost of living is starting to have an effect on prices! I am keeping an eye on collecting cars porsche sale this week and it will be interesting to see results!

[stichill99]

Their looked a very smart baltic blue 964 targa finished tonight at £45'500. It only had 68000 miles on it ,good mot history and service history. Another £3000 odd in fees and I didn't think it was too dear compared to dealer prices!

[911hillclimber]

Just taking Andy's point about (say) the value in the market of an MGB GT v similar, ie Triumph GT6 and all the whole range of cars available out there:

A very good friend has a standard unwelded TR7 fixed roof.
He loves it, but worked on the Triumph rally cars way back so has that connection hence the TR7.
The 7 has all the modernity, good brakes, good parts supply (cheap bits) and much more. Dead cheap to insure too.

He knows my 911 well and is not impressed except they sound great.

The 7 value is about £7K, creeping up,

He has no desire to find anything else, it all suits him and Pam who also drives it possibly more than Jim. And he is happy.

There is a lot of metal for £10k and some nice classic cars for up to £15k, not fast, not rare, but easy to own.

I'm not sure expensive classics are easy to own. Once they are high value in the market, everything else rises with that, parts, insurance etc etc.

Many are happy with simple 'domestic' classics as many local shows and village fairs will show.

I would certainly miss my 911 if sold, but be happy in an MGB GT or Spitfire, but I've had them amny years ago and remember them well.
Capri's the same!