73T - Carrera Targa Donor Update

Bertroex · Post by **Bertroex** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:55 pm

In,

There are no RHD figures as such available. The markets were UK (biggest share), Australia, Singapore, Malta.

We only know how many were imported by the UK and assume a very small RHD share made it over the water.

Best have Guy White but in here. Nonetheless, it is an extremely rare road going performance porsche.

HTH,

Bert

Highfield · Post by **Highfield** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:19 pm

Thanks Bert,

Lets see if we can get a number for the UK, but interested in Andy's comment.

So why did Porsche make so few ? Were the unloved at the time, whether Coupe or Targe as both are low volume. The 3.0RS was the 'race' car for that year.

Ian

210bhp · Post by **210bhp** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:41 pm

Butt back in

Ian

You have to realise what was going on in the world at that time. Unfortunately I am old enough to remember

World oil crisis pushed the cost of a barrel of oil through the roof
Munich Olympics attack/Middle East situation
American emissions clampdown
Vietnam difficulties
Cold war height

73 through to 75 was a very nervous time and the last thing the average Joe was thinking about was his next Porsche. He was waiting for the news the red button had been pushed.

I think in a 'normal' market the model in question would have been a great seller. There is also an idea that this engine type was being 'used up' before the rather tame US 2.7 S with it's detuned performance was used. There was also the impending introduction of the new 3 litre turbo in 75.

I think there was a feeling that, although it had the same engine, it wasn't a 'real RS' and maybe that brings us to Andy's point that it didn't catch the imagination. Am I also right in saying races like the Targa Floirio were also about to come to an end (in their historical format) ?

All these facts and more have contrived to make an unloved/unwanted car at the time a very rare beast. I had no idea that it might be as few as 4 survivors but I knew it wouldn't be many.

You have a conundrum.

Regards
Mike
(Anorak) apparently

Mick Cliff · Post by **Mick Cliff** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:51 pm

210bhp wrote: Mike
(Anorak) apparently

What do you mean - 'apparently'

NigelC210 · Post by **NigelC210** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:18 pm

Highfield wrote:
So why did Porsche make so few ? Were the unloved at the time, whether Coupe or Targe as both are low volume. The 3.0RS was the 'race' car for that year.

Ian

Production nos.
1974/5 Euro Carrera 2.7 Coupe and Targa : 2184
1973 RS : 1590

210bhp · Post by **210bhp** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:40 pm

NigelC210 wrote:
Highfield wrote:
So why did Porsche make so few ? Were the unloved at the time, whether Coupe or Targe as both are low volume. The 3.0RS was the 'race' car for that year.

Ian
Production nos.
1974/5 Euro Carrera 2.7 Coupe and Targa : 2184
1973 RS : 1590

1973 RS production numbers were 1580 (chassis numbers started at 11)and about 100 were RHD of which about 17 were lightweights (Andy will confirm the exact numbers

)
I don't have 74/75 RHD production numbers numbers,sorry.

Regards
Mike

Lightweight_911 · Post by **Lightweight_911** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:04 pm

What I don't understand is why it's important to preserve a car just because it's RHD - there are plenty of LHD 2.7 Carrera Targas* still running around.

*There were 433 2.7 Euro Carrera Targas built in the '74 model year & another 197 in the '75 MY.

There are enthusiasts/fanatics for every model of 911 (& every model of Porsche come to that) who feel that their particular icon should be preserved at all costs - anyone want a 1969 911E c/w original Boge hydro-pneumatic self-levelling struts & 14" Fuchs ?

By the way Mike, I've always believed there were 93 RHD RS Touring models & 17 RHD 'Lightweights' built.

NigelC210 · Post by **NigelC210** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:49 pm

I would be surprised if there were very many LHD 2.7 Euro Carrera Targas still running around.
Corrosion and accidents have certainly taken their toll on the number of coupes.
As the coupe has risen in value by 3x since 2005 and now stands at around 2x the Targa , it might be interesting to compare the difference in values between an early 911S coupe and Targa.

Highfield · Post by **Highfield** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:39 am

Andy

Good point on RHD - I can see it as being 630 Euro spec. cars across 74/75 and just because fewer were in 1975 (same spec.) that shouldn't really make it more or less valuable than a 1974 - IMHO.

Nigel

Interesting view on the valuation between Coupe and Targa - the part that I believe leads me to it not being economic to restore the Targa.

If a 1973 911s is worth £60K, then a Targa can be had for £30K ?

If Paul Stephens Targa is at £25K (I know he wants more), then your Coupe is £50K ?

If I had stumbled upon a Coupe, it would be restored for sure.

Ian

jb · Post by jb » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:38 am

I never fully understand why people are so mean about Targas. They go just as well, handle much the same in standard form in most conditions and sound the same.And since on todays roads I am often in traffic they have the added advantage of allowing me to be able to bask in the sunshine whilst following traffic.

I gather they are not so stiff, which makes sense as they have a hole where the roof ought to be, and so are not quite so good on the track.
However how much time does anyone spend on the track and anyway if speed is the issue there are lots of cars that are much faster.

I very much doubt if I will ever sell mine as I like it and it ticks all the boxes for me so its value is purely academic unless it gets nicked or written off. Then I will have a problem as there are not so many Targas to choose from but at least they are likely to cost less than a coupe.

It does seem a shame that it will be broken up but it does make economic sense so don't think twice Ian - enjoy the engine which I am sure will be fabulous.

NigelC210 · Post by **NigelC210** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:43 am

Highfield wrote:
If a 1973 911s is worth £60K, then a Targa can be had for £30K ?

Ian

Ian
Sorry I didn't make the point very clearly.
Whatever the current value difference is between a '73 911S coupe and Targa might be a sign of where the '74/5 Targa might go in the future in comparison with the coupe.

Highfield · Post by **Highfield** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:22 pm

Nigel - understood.

So where is the 'S' coupe in comparison to the 'S' Targa today ?

Interesting to watch prices develop over the years, and I still regret not buying a 964RS for £25K a few years ago

Ian

impmad2000 · Post by **impmad2000** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:43 pm

To be honest, I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. There's a lot more rare cars out there than the 911 !
Say if we (Not anyone in particular) really did make a particular model "extinct" say RHD 74 carrera Targa of instance ? We will never make the 911 targa extinct will we ! There are a lot more rare cars out therethat are worth a fraction of a 911, but still more rare ! My parents have a 1908 Renault AX, This is REALLY OLD ! but sell it and you'd probably be in mint '74 Carrera Targa territory for price !
at 100 years old, these things are rare, and to be sure it would sell easily enough, there's just not the same level of demand !
At least there's cars like this '74 Targa that can supply valuable donor parts to allow us to keep playing with the cars we do keep running.
Sure look at the numbers if you want, but does it really mean anything ?
.... Runs and ducks for cover !!

Tim

Guy · Post by **Guy** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:47 pm

Unlike the Pporsche Club GB Register for the early 911s I have not had access to the Porsche Great Britain records for the cars they sold so do not have a figure for RHD '75 Carrera Targas.

As posted by Bert there were four registered with PCGB which includes Ian's one. Of the others one is in Australia (for sale at 'Classic Throttle Shop' recently at A$ 85000) and looking on the DVLA website the other two have been untaxed since 2005/2006.

This one then is possibly the only '75 one on the road in GB although as previously pointed out there is no difference between the '74 and '75 models.

In 1974 the Carrera Coupe was £8600 and the Targa £9000 so price may be why there aren't so many Targas. Also the unpopularity of the Targa seams perculiar to the UK as in other markets there doesn't appear to be this differential.

Think Nigel's (C210) coupe must be £50000 ish especially as its LHD.

Guy

911hillclimber · Post by **911hillclimber** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:10 pm

Phew!
Why all the pre-occupation over money all the time?

Sure some buy/use/keep a 911 (or another icon) to cherrish and see the value rise. You only get that money when you let it go forever.
There is a satisfaction I'm sure knowing you chose well ages ago and see the value rise and rise and afall a bit etc.

Then there is the other side to having the car enjoying it and not being worried about the value and winning money. Is life all about money gain?
If it rises in value so be it, but you have to sell to realise it.

To this Targa. Great car and rare, but hardly a disaster to the planet if it is the last and is lost to the world!

If the car's shell is shot then the owner has a choice.
Sell as a whole to someone who is enthusiastic enough to save this car and invest for the future, or break it for his own use and maybe others too.

I'm told a real 2.7 mech inj Carrera engine is worth £10K. Is that true?
Are things getting out of hand?

I guess while there is a strong demand there will be a strong asking price and occasionally a few bargains where it gets found as an unusual price.

Here is one such item it seems.

If you don't want to repair the car then break and use it.

Soon someone might pay the market price for the whole (25K?). You can then profit and have an engine built with some change over.

Graham.